Originally published at: https://geektherapy.org/f9-the-f-is-for-family/
#305: Josué, Lara, and Link discuss F9 and Black Widow, two recent movies that focus on family. Found family or chosen family narratives are common in media and we unpack how they relate to our lived experiences, and shape our expectations of familial relationships. The power of Fambly!
Josué Cardona 0:11
Welcome to gt radio on the Geek Therapy network here at Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. I’m joined by Lara Taylor.
Lara Taylor 0:20
Josué Cardona 0:21
And Link Keller.
Link Keller 0:22
Josué Cardona 0:25
y’all are like family to me, you know, you know that and I
Link Keller 0:27
Josué Cardona 0:28
mean that. no, you are. Yes, I want to talk with the power family because the memes are good. They’re everywhere. They’re No, you don’t think they’re good? No. It’s too much. There’s too much right sometimes. I meme, just go too far. Is that does it? I think I think it’s gone too far.
Lara Taylor 0:48
Josué Cardona 0:49
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It feels a little oversaturated. Kind of
Lara Taylor 0:53
like that. Anakin and Padme one.
Josué Cardona 0:57
Yeah, yeah. We missed our chance to Yeah, maybe, maybe. But they come around, they come back around. Which the power family has come back around. I really liked the Fast and Furious movies.
Link Keller 1:10
Josué Cardona 1:11
I enjoyed them a lot. I’m so I cannot. I was I was thinking about which movie would bring me back to theaters. And I just fast nine, isn’t it? But that’s not it. I will I will wait. I’m curious. I mean, know what you’re talking about family a second. I’m curious. What movie would bring you back like into a movie theater? That’s like upcoming are coming soon. Or not announced, you know that you just wish like what would bring? You know,
Lara Taylor 1:43
I still go to movies. I just go to the drive in. Yeah.
Josué Cardona 1:48
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like to go to like, theater, theater,
Lara Taylor 1:51
I don’t need to go to a theater theater, my sound system in my car rumbles under my butt.
Josué Cardona 1:59
It’s not as convincing of an argument to a person with a better
Lara Taylor 2:02
it’s a better sound system than the theater. I’m just saying,
Josué Cardona 2:06
they’re, they’re good theaters. out there. I mean, so no, like
Link Keller 2:12
I would like to go to I don’t even know if there’s one up here. But I would like to go to the Alamo Drafthouse again and have like that kind of viewing experience, but I can’t even like think of a movie that. Like, I’m pretty sure. The last movie I saw in theaters in January 2020 was the lighthouse. And that movie was so good. That I don’t know, like, how, I don’t know how to like, get back there. You know, it feels like it’s been too much… Not enough.
Lara Taylor 2:50
I think about the fact that I might, I might be willing to go to a movie theater. However, other people in my household are not willing to go into a movie theater.
Josué Cardona 3:00
But I just wonder like, if there’s any, you know, like, for me, I think upcoming it’s like matrix 4 I think I would have gone to see matrix 4 like last June, in a pack theater, just like I couldn’t, I wouldn’t, I would have risked my life to go see matrix 4 as soon as possible. But that fast. I do want to see
Link Keller 3:18
that. And I do feel like the matrix movies are do have an additional aspect of viewing in a theater, but I don’t I don’t know if it’s enough. I don’t know if it hits the threshold of me being like, Yes, I will drive there and go to do that.
Josué Cardona 3:35
Yeah, yeah, I don’t. Yeah, like, which one, even even people who are too afraid right now. To to go to a theater. I feel like there’s got to be something that you would go to like some event maybe.
Lara Taylor 3:47
I don’t know if like, it’s not an upcoming movie. But like, before Wonder Woman 84 came out. If it was coming out in the time of we have vaccines? Where Yeah, I probably would have been like, yes, I’m going to see that in theater.
Link Keller 4:05
You did also see that at the drive in though, right? Am I remembering correctly?
Lara Taylor 4:09
Josué Cardona 4:11
Lara Taylor 4:11
I’ve seen a lot of things at the drive in Yeah,
Link Keller 4:13
it is really cool that drive ins exist, conceptually. But especially the past, you know, year and a half. It has been so great. I wouldn’t know before I moved out to Washington where I was living in Santa Cruz. There was a drive in movie theater there for decades. That closed a couple of years before 2020 happened, but that was that was a big bummer.
Lara Taylor 4:42
Like they even open one up in San Francisco at Fort Mason to because people wanted that experience. By the way, the concessions at my drive in are better than any I have been. They have churros and Boba
Josué Cardona 4:59
like I’m done with you selling.
Link Keller 5:00
mmmm oh wait that sounds good
Josué Cardona 5:01
its like I don’t know. It’s it’s still doesn’t sound… gimme an Alamo better. i want that movie experience. i don’t care How much your butt shakes
Lara Taylor 5:09
Alamo closed down
Link Keller 5:11
I do I do want to offer a counter argument Josué. Like
Josué Cardona 5:16
what arguement? what was i arguing?
Link Keller 5:18
If you’re in your if you’re in your car
Lara Taylor 5:21
you don’t have to deal with other people
Link Keller 5:22
you don’t have to deal with other people also you can fart and it’s not rude at all.
Josué Cardona 5:29
if people know that you that you’re the one who farted you did it wrong in the theater.
Link Keller 5:34
Ah, I see
Josué Cardona 5:36
that’s another conversation
Link Keller 5:37
Josué Cardona 5:40
So all of this to say that I have not seen fast nine, but I want to see fast nine, which is not that bad. And that’s where all the power of everybody’s talking about the power family making memes but it you know, I think I do like that aspect of the movies. And one movie that I did get to see not in theaters, but at home was blackwidow.
Link Keller 6:00
i was gonna say, Speaking of movies that I saw, about family, that I am not willing to pay for…it’s black widow
Josué Cardona 6:12
I’m sorry, I took that away from you, Go for it.
Link Keller 6:14
thank you. we added in It’s fine. It’s fine.
Josué Cardona 6:18
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I thought about it. I thought I was like, I don’t. I wasn’t even that’s a whole other conversation. Like would I even pay $30 to see this movie. When in a month or two, it’s going to be on a streaming service. Would I pay for that pleasure, and I definitely would not have paid so you’ll see blackwidow in theaters
Lara Taylor 6:36
it’s made more money than any movie during the pandemic or since the pandemic started, including all the other movies that have come out in the last few months when theaters have been open more.
Josué Cardona 6:47
Oh, that’s it’s a sad way to gloat. I mean, I get it. It’s horrible situation. The worst were the least worst off. I get it. Um, but I know the point you’re making like
Lara Taylor 7:03
a female led movie that is kicking ass right now.
Josué Cardona 7:07
It is it is again it I feel. I hate that these female-led movies are
Lara Taylor 7:12
that were gonna come out during the pandemic. Were female lead movies. Yeah, yeah.
Josué Cardona 7:17
Yeah, like that. That happens a lot. So I mean, in a way I’m
Link Keller 7:19
you heard it here first, folks. COVID? a misogynist,
Lara Taylor 7:23
Josué Cardona 7:26
I’m glad that it’s getting a theatrical run and it gets to you know, people will get to see it in different ways. But I am way happier that it was also on disney plus premiere access,
Lara Taylor 7:38
which they were talking about not doing.
Josué Cardona 7:41
Look. You can find like version of every single part of this possibility for this over the last 18 months,
Lara Taylor 7:49
where they put it off so much longer than the other movies that they were releasing. Marvel did not want to do it. And I’m glad they did.
Josué Cardona 7:58
Yeah. Ultimately, I mean, we’re just talking about like, other people are controlling how we watch movies and what, how often Am I willing to comply and for which movies, so I was willing to pay $30 just to watch blackwidow at home after having watched the movie. I think it was great. I loved it. I loved it so much that I was
Lara Taylor 8:21
gonna end up paying $30 because I’m probably going to end up going again with another set of friends to see it at the drive in.
Josué Cardona 8:27
I loved it. I am I want to rewatch it like it was it was a lot of fun. It was it was one of the most I mean, it’s one of my favorite Marvel movies now like top definitely top probably my number three also. Yeah. So So I love that but but family it was all about family. I did not expect the movie to be that way. It was this will keep waiting for fantastic for this was this was as close as we can get to like a family movie. It was all about family dynamics. And it was it was good.
Lara Taylor 8:57
Nina leaned over and we’re watching the movie. And we got to do that without disturbing the rest of the people in the theater. And she was like they they’re nailing the sibling dynamic, right? There was moments where the way Elena would say something. And I’d be like, Nina, would you do that? And she’s like, yes, yes, I would totally do that as the younger sister. And it was great. It was great to see that. And we are the kind of people who, anytime we see two women close together in a movie, we’re like, oh, we ship that. Well, never because I totally bought into the family dynamic in this. It was great.
Josué Cardona 9:44
I didn’t know where you’re going with this. I’m glad. I’m glad.
Lara Taylor 9:46
Josué Cardona 9:48
But back to the fact that they were sisters. Cool. All right.
Lara Taylor 9:52
They’re back to the real break. But no, no, we don’t we don’t ship that. We don’t ship that because because you We bought the we bought the relationship. It was great.
Josué Cardona 10:04
Okay, I think I see what you were trying to say. Yeah. Link comment.
Link Keller 10:10
I was doing I was doing some pre recording research like I do. And I was looking at all of the Dom fast. Nine, meme family memes came across a whole bunch of incest ones and it was very like OOP UH.
Lara Taylor 10:29
And so we’re like, oh, no, let’s not go there.
Link Keller 10:34
We got a pump on these brakes.
Josué Cardona 10:36
That’s what happens when you Google family. On the internet. It just comes up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But that’s not what we’re talking about.
Link Keller 10:44
not what we’re talking about
Lara Taylor 10:46
We’re talking we’re talking about chosen family.
Josué Cardona 10:49
It is chosen family. Right? Because the the thing about if you haven’t seen Black Widow, obviously, we recommend it. Two out of three of us think it’s very, it’s amazing. Top three Marvel’s top three Marvel movies, or both of us. Although I am counting the endgame and infinity war is one. I don’t think you can hold that against me.
Lara Taylor 11:08
I don’t because originally it was gonna be part one. And part two. You got it.
Josué Cardona 11:11
Yeah, you get you get you get what I’m trying to say. But it’s it’s that good. I like it. I like it a lot. And, yeah, again, I didn’t expect this whole family aspect to be a part of the movie. But it is like they are a family. But they’re also not a family. watch the movie. That’s what I mean. Right. But okay,
Link Keller 11:33
for clarification, they’re not directly related. They just have a long and varied history.
Lara Taylor 11:42
So they’re part of a family.
Josué Cardona 11:45
They were basically
Link Keller 11:46
are you doing quotes around family, like the mob?
Lara Taylor 11:50
I mean, it’s the first like five to 10 minutes of the movie. Right?
Link Keller 11:55
I want clarification is actually like, you know, chosen family kind of thing. Or if it’s more like, a different kind of family dynamic, which is still cool.
Link Keller 12:06
I think it’s both because, yeah, it’s both.
Josué Cardona 12:09
Yeah. It’s like sometimes you get put into a situation with other people. And, and you can make choices about that. How much you want to accept that, right? It’s like, step siblings, right. It’s like there’s no blood. And maybe there’s a relationship for a little while, you know, and, but
Lara Taylor 12:29
you can choose to continue to have them in your life or you can choose not to.
Josué Cardona 12:32
Yeah, yeah. And how do you how do you move forward with that? And so it touches a lot on that, but I am. Yeah, is that clarifying enough? Or no? I back. I bet I backpedaled I was gonna go I was gonna go into details within I think not I don’t think I have to. Um, I think Yeah, part of it is in the in the trailers and stuff, but it’s just yeah, it’s like a family is a big part of it. There’s just a lot of family stuff. And and it was incredibly fun. And it was those human interaction moments that made the movie, like the action and stuff was great, but it was the interaction
Lara Taylor 13:07
the sister antagonistic, like, back and forth banter. Oh, beautiful.
Josué Cardona 13:12
But also also the parents and the way Yeah, and the way that all of that and then the, you know, the frustration of like, breaking up as a family and then coming back together and helping each other out and all that stuff. It’s great, but it really is, yeah, I’m thinking mostly of chosen family stuff. Like I always I always love those stories. And at least they affect me in a way because I got my preferred family, my friends, you know, present company, including the people listening to this podcast, are more meaningful to me and I care more about than a lot of people who are blood relatives, and and I should feel closer to and, and those relationships are more important to me. And um, yeah, should Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t I don’t think we should necessarily but uh, but yeah, I think that’s something. That’s what I’ve always liked about those the fast The Furious movies. It’s like, there’s no, there’s no. Like, we know what that means when he’s talking about family. Right? It’s like, it’s like, it’s definitely like, this is just family. Nothing you can’t do, you got family. And they do a lot of stuff. That seems like really impossible, but because they have family, they’re able to do incredible things.
Lara Taylor 14:32
And then Black Widow, this family does incredible things, too.
Josué Cardona 14:36
They do. They do. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, they can do it together. Yeah. Yeah. And instead ideally, when you come together the things that you can accomplish, I think, you know, that’s probably the the key message of the Fast and Furious movies. I love stories like that. Are there other stories of my chosen families that that you always do that you go back to or have resonated a lot In the past
Link Keller 15:03
I mean, when you use the phrase chosen family, my mind immediately goes to x men as the the easy example to bring up. I have always loved that aspect of x men is is that they are a bunch of weirdos who became each other’s family both out of necessity and out of choice. And I think that’s really beautiful.
Josué Cardona 15:34
Hmm hmm. How about you, Lara?
Lara Taylor 15:38
There are, there are a lot of things like we can look at Lilo and Stitch we got, “ohana means family.” But what popped into my head was more like the bat family. Very different dynamic, because Batman goes back and forth between wanting the family and also not wanting the family.
Josué Cardona 16:02
Lara Taylor 16:03
Which is also a thing that we do on our regular families too. Like blood blood families, definitely. There are some people we want to interact with more than others. Sometimes we just want to pull away from all of them. But yeah, the bat family was a big example I thought of
Josué Cardona 16:23
I do I do. Like I do. Like both of these examples. um the bat family really, in particular is one that I I think about that all the time. Because especially if that that aspect of it, like it was you know, like, depending on which comics, he’s like, he’s all about the family. And sometimes he’s, he’s not, and he has different reasons for that. But I think ultimately, that even in chosen families, that’s something that definitely happens. And I know that even when I want to pull away and and, and just disengage completely, that chosen family of mine, like checks in and doesn’t let me do that. And they and yeah, but the bat family’s… It’s all like they’re all inspired by this idea. Right? Not it’s not just the person but they’re inspired by this idea. And some of them. They just there’s a shared interest, there’s something in common and then eventually, they have this more. Ironically, like actually, bat woman is actually literally Bruce Wayne’s cousin. in the comics and the stories and they’re the least close in terms of bat relatives. Yes,
Lara Taylor 17:39
Josué Cardona 17:40
bat family is a true thing that people say in the comics bat relatives is not don’t say bad relatives if you if you want to sound like you know what you’re talking about. Um, but yeah, there’s, there’s something about that, um, the bat family, this one person who’s like, a loner, for the most part
Lara Taylor 17:58
brooding in his Batcave, right?
Josué Cardona 18:02
One of the reasons
Lara Taylor 18:03
people surrounding him that care.
Josué Cardona 18:05
Yeah, but I mean, but he’s shown care, like, he’s tried to protect a lot of them. And so over over time, like, I love those stories with age, they come back to protect him. And, and yeah, they’re there. I love those stories where he’s like, I can’t do it alone. So actually, let’s, let’s do this. Let’s, let’s team up. And, and that’s what it’s all about. That’s what it’s all about.
Lara Taylor 18:27
that’s a that’s a theme that runs through a lot of superhero stories. The CW Super Girl Show, The her friends are basically her family and like, like she has chosen family and that she was 12 and crashed on the planet. And that’s her family. But that’s more of like an adopted family rather than her chosen family, which is, you know, she’s got her sister, but then she’s also got Martian Manhunter is like an adoptive father to her and like her chosen father, and every they come together, and they have family game nights and dinners. And there was a point in the show where she pushed everyone away because she didn’t want them to get hurt. I don’t know if it was a whole arc or if it was just like an episode or two. But she pushed everyone away. And they were like, No, we are stronger together as a family. We need to like, do things our way and support each other and use our strengths to help each other. And I really love that that theme that pops up throughout that series. That’s still I still haven’t watched the last two episodes because I don’t want it to end.
Josué Cardona 19:41
Yeah, I understand that. Yeah. I’m curious when when you think of so when I think of the term family, like To me, it’s very clear what my chosen family is or the people that I you know, whether they agree or not, right? They’re in that group. It’s because I get from them things that I didn’t get from the family that I think there was an expectation of what family was, like, I know what the definition is. So it’s very easy for me to, to identify the group of people that actually fit the definition that I that I wanted, but didn’t necessarily have. And so it’s like, it’s a, it’s like, I came into the world, right with a, with a definition of I was pretty established, and therefore I had an expectation. And it wasn’t until way later that I was able to put a picture in the dictionary next to the word. I didn’t understand it until later. Does that sound relatable? like does that is that? How do you? Yeah, but do you even think in that way? Like do you think of, of Do you think you’ve chosen family in that way? Or is it just like his friends enough? Like,
Lara Taylor 21:04
I think for me, it’s, it’s interesting, like, I don’t know if until more recently, I would have put the label chosen family on that. They’re just family like. Angelica, my friend Angelica started joking and calling me and Nina, mom’s when we were at Comic, or wondercon. One time, she’s wearing a jawa costume, and just started yelling, mom’s mom’s when she couldn’t find us. And then we were like, stop it. Because people are gonna think you’re like our child and you got lost in the convention that we’ve left you stop it. But it’s a big joke with us now. And since around the time, Nina and I got married, Angelica has been a part of our family. She gets invited to quinceañeras, she gets invited to weddings, she gets invited to Thanksgiving or Christmas or whatever. Like, that’s how close she is. And like the two of you have met my family maybe a couple times. But like, you’re always welcome at our Passover Seders or Hanukkah parties. Or if we did Thanksgiving or Christmas here, like, I’m allowed to invite whoever here, you know, I’m not necessarily allowed to invite whoever, to my dad’s house, but like, your family its those things that like,
Josué Cardona 22:24
so its an extension? gotcha
Lara Taylor 22:26
For me, it’s an extension. And I feel the same way about those people that I have a family that I get along with, for the most part. Some people I don’t quite get along with quite as well. But it’s an extension of the family that I love and I care about and would pretty much do anything for
Josué Cardona 22:48
Lara Taylor 22:53
There are some people who if they called me in the middle of the night and needed me to pick them up from the ER, I’d be like, I can’t I got to work in the morning. Do you have this person’s number this person’s number there are other people I would just get up and go.
Josué Cardona 23:07
Yeah, yeah. That’s that’s the, the measurement. That’s, that’s a test.
Lara Taylor 23:16
Josué Cardona 23:17
what about you, Link?
Link Keller 23:20
Are? Wait, what are you asking me right now?
Josué Cardona 23:23
Yeah. How do you define the family?
Link Keller 23:30
Um, I mean, I
Josué Cardona 23:36
do you use that word even?
Link Keller 23:38
I do. I do. Actually, I’ve been using it a lot as I’ve moved in with two of my dear friends and their baby. And we talked about being a family all the time. We are a family. I I’m sort of it’s interesting because you brought you brought up the idea of found family fulfilling needs that you didn’t actually get from your family and that is definitely my experience when I was younger. At this point, being an adult I…how old am I?
Lara Taylor 24:22
A love it. once you get a 30 that happens.
Link Keller 24:27
I if you if you exclude the first five years where I don’t really have memories. I have a pretty even split in my life experiences of being you know, with a family that I am blood related to or by marriage, and then as an adult where I very much opted out of those relationships and opted into the relationships I chose with my friends and I put in time and effort and you know social capital of building those relationships up to the point where I feel confident in that these people also consider me family the way that I consider them family. um. speaking about it now, where you’re asking to sort of, is there a line between like, you know, just really close, supportive friend group, and then the people that you call family? That’s pretty difficult for me. And I was, as you guys were talking about us trying to figure out like, why, why, why, why am I now getting hung up on that aspect. And I think part of it is coming from a polyamorous background, I have started thinking about relationships differently than I feel a lot of people think about relationships. Now, obviously, polyamory is more related to romantic relationships than family relationships, but people tend to build family relationships with the people they’re romantically entangled with. So something in my own journey of, you know, figuring out what polyamory means to me and how I want to build romantic, platonic, sexual, any kind of relationship with other people I’ve seen sort of grown away from the idea of like, there needing to be different groups. It’s more case by case. It’s a case by case and even more so than that. It is contextual, day by day even.
Josué Cardona 26:49
It doesn’t have to be family or non family. I think that there can be other terms. Yeah,
Link Keller 26:52
I think i think that’s that’s part of it. And what I’m finding really interesting in as we are talking about this topic in relationship to film series. I’m thinking when I was younger, I was really into Buffy. And Buffy has a big found family aspect.
Lara Taylor 27:20
Yeah. they’re a family,
Link Keller 27:24
family and Giles’s dad Giles is everybody’s dad. Like he was set up. Very obviously, to be Buffy’s father figure they very clearly like No dad in the picture, and then here’s a handsome dad, but then it becomes pretty clear by like, the third or fourth season that none of these teens have good relationships with their fathers. And Giles is absolutely fulfilling that
Lara Taylor 27:53
you never see a father in the show. Except for I think Buffys dad. Maybe a couple of times.
Link Keller 27:58
Buffy’s dad shows up like, twice.
Lara Taylor 28:00
Link Keller 28:03
Yeah. I don’t know how I was turning that back to having a hard time delineating there, but maybe the answer is I just want everybody to be my Buffy family.
Josué Cardona 28:14
Link Keller 28:15
everybody? but then, Some of you are xanders. No offense. No offense.
Josué Cardona 28:18
Lara Taylor 28:20
Link Keller 28:21
Feel free to come back and fix any of that.
Lara Taylor 28:23
I want to I want to be a Tara.
Josué Cardona 28:29
So so when I didn’t interrupt you to make this point, but I forget how old you are, Lara, that you have in your chosen families? You like you’re the mom. Sometimes. I didn’t know that, that I am.
Lara Taylor 28:41
I am your age Josué.
Josué Cardona 28:42
Shut up. um, right. So
Link Keller 28:44
I’ve also been called the friend group mom.
Josué Cardona 28:48
So that’s so that’s, that’s funny. Because when you were talking about like, I don’t like roles and things. I never think of it that way. I never think of
Lara Taylor 28:56
its the people you care about, right?
Josué Cardona 28:58
Yeah, it’s a group definition. Right? It’s like, these people are in the group. I’ve, I can’t think of a time where I’m like, oh, that person is like a brother to me. Or that person’s like a cousin. Or like, Oh, that’s my work mom or something like that. Like, I don’t, I don’t know. Like, I don’t I don’t think of thing. I don’t think of it that that way. It’s just it’s way more of a category. And like a feeling like, I don’t have a measurement in terms of you know, late at night Would I answer? would I help them?
Lara Taylor 29:31
The like, the the the moms thing, like, we joke about that, but like, it’s not, I mean, we would give her some like momily advice at times, but for the most part, I feel like she’s more she’s more put together than than either Nina or I are? Um, right like decision making I would leave to her?
Josué Cardona 29:55
I don’t relate being put together with mother. So with well being a mom
Lara Taylor 30:00
I would but like, cuz usually the mom, friend is like the put together like, let’s organize. And
Link Keller 30:12
I think that’s actually such an interesting point. There’s the aspect of like, sort of descriptive of being like, oh, you’re the mom, friend, you do things that socially we apply to motherhood. But there’s also the aspect of like, you don’t act like a mom, but in my heart, I wish you and Nina were my moms. I can agree with that idea. 100%. And like, conceptually, sounds beautiful, wonderful,
Lara Taylor 30:39
Link Keller 30:40
Lara Taylor 30:42
Somehow, we’ve also managed to adopt every intern, every queer intern that comes through the cartoon Art Museum. We have two daughters in Singapore. And one here in the Bay Area. And like, we are a family, like, we give them advice. We they give us advice. We confide in each other. It’s what, it’s beautiful.
Josué Cardona 31:15
My idea of family is much more horizontal hierarchical structure.
Lara Taylor 31:22
I think part of it has to do with age with I’m not that much older than some of these people. And some of them I am quite a bit older than them.
Josué Cardona 31:33
Yeah. So yeah, again, that I mean, that that could be a part of it. It could, it could just be, you know, the idea of the approximation of that role of like, if I needed something, who would I go to? Well, then that person feels like this particular role. Hmm, interesting. Yeah. Is there any? I mean, I guess that happens a lot in TV shows too, and different stories where those roles are much more clearly defined. Others aren’t others are kind of just general. But like, like you said in Buffy, like, there’s a father figure, right?
Link Keller 32:06
Josué Cardona 32:07
absolutely. They don’t have to say it. But it’s, I think it’s written that way.
Link Keller 32:11
Buffy’s mom very much becomes the group mom figure, which, you know, makes her her death in that episode even more impactful, because it’s not just Buffy grieving her mom, it is all of these
Lara Taylor 32:21
Link Keller 32:23
different people. Dealing with that
Lara Taylor 32:25
and buffy becomes the mom
Link Keller 32:26
and then yeah, the the restructuring of the family group without you know that that person there anymore?
Josué Cardona 32:36
Link Keller 32:39
I did want to say I think it’s in an episode where Tara’s abusive family is trying to get her and take her back to their family. And that is Willow, explain explicitly says no, we are Tara’s family. So, you know, not not just sort of like, wow, we’re really tight knit group of friends is like, when they express the characters are like, No, you my Family! like that’s when you know, it’s good.
Link Keller 32:46
A lot of that time, when that shows up in stories, it’s because there’s it’s like, oh, these are the rules. And we’re your real mom and dad or your real family. So you have to come here, you have to do this, right? And it’s like, um actually, no, I don’t like I’m not following those rules. That doesn’t mean the same thing. To me as it does to you.
Lara Taylor 33:32
these People? they’re my family.
Josué Cardona 33:34
Even even in that context, it’s like you think that I have a sense of obligation to you, but I actually do not. I feel an obligation or a sense of obligation to them. Like I’m dedicated to this group. And not because of common you know, last name or blood or, or legal status or situation or anything like that. It’s what you think that I’m going to give you this kind of what you think we have, we don’t we do not have? It’s not a thing? No, but I usually don’t think about it in that way. Like I like my chosen family isn’t a replacement really for for my family, like I I have good relationships with people in my family. With some people but there’s, there’s like an aspect of like, oh, like a group that is not just like these are these are people who are special to me who mean something to me. And it’s kind of like we could argue for hours, what love means and how what it means and all that stuff, right? It’s like, I don’t know, it’s like, what is family? I don’t know. Like if I had to use one word to describe family, I think I think it’d be support. Like, when working with clients and students. One of the first things I want to make sure that they have a support system in place. And sometimes the conversation immediately go to like, well, their parents are here, they’re older sister and then and then like Like, for real, though? Like, who would? Who would they go to, if they if they, if they needed to talk about something if they if they if they needed a hug, if they if they if they? Who would they feel safe with? Who would they go to? If they they weren’t well? I get like, you know, your mental health treatment, I want to make sure you have that for the other six days and 23 hours that you’re not seeing me. Who else is there for you? Who else can you go to? And in that conversation would usually go towards
Lara Taylor 35:37
Josué Cardona 35:37
Yeah, but the idea that
Lara Taylor 35:38
that are family
Josué Cardona 35:40
Yeah, yeah, that quote unquote, you know, idea of a family like, like, I don’t know, I feel like maybe, maybe it doesn’t have to be much more than, like support system. For me, that’s the way I’m defining it. I’m thinking.
Link Keller 35:51
it’s so interesting to me, because I feel like the idea of the chosen family is very much like a queer thing. It is tied to a, you know, a long history of people coming out and then getting completely ejected from their family and then having to find that support that you’re talking about is finding new people and choosing those kinds of relationships as explicitly as a replacement for a family that was not or could not be there. I think it is so interesting that you know, of course, people who still have good relationships with their family have, you know, family-ass relationships with friends and stuff. You just talked about it Josué. As we’re having this conversation, I just keep thinking, I’m like, I feel like we’re like, Decolonizing the idea of family is like the the nuclear family mom, dad, two and a half kids dog is like, no, we’re done with that. We are absolutely done with that. We are going the Toretto family
Lara Taylor 37:01
everybody knows everybody’s brothers, everybody. Sisters, family.
Link Keller 37:07
Josué Cardona 37:09
It’s just family. Yeah. Say
Lara Taylor 37:11
No. It’s not family. It’s fambly.
Josué Cardona 37:13
Are you two fambly,
Link Keller 37:15
Josué Cardona 37:15
And then you just say then that’s it. You just ask like that. Yeah, yeah. And that’s it doesn’t matter.
Lara Taylor 37:20
are we Fambly? We’re fambly.
Josué Cardona 37:21
Yeah. There you go. Yeah, yeah. I like that. decolonizing family? I like it. Yeah, I think I do know, it’s one thing. It was sold to me one way and no, I I don’t like that version. There’s a version of it that I prefer
Link Keller 37:39
I found it wanting. So y’know what? I’m gonna do my own thing now.
Josué Cardona 37:42
on my own? Yeah. Yeah.
Link Keller 37:46
It’s bespoke relationships over here.
Josué Cardona 37:50
Yeah, yeah. Well, let me let me I mentioned fantastic four before. That’s, that’s definitely. I’m a
Lara Taylor 38:03
that’s a that’s a that’s a definite like blood family. and chosen family.
Josué Cardona 38:08
Right. Right. That Yeah, so I was getting it’s like, it’s, it’s sure they’re married. Right. And then one is the brother. Right? It’s us brother, and then a friend. So it’s like, but they’re considered like, like Marvel’s first family. But it’s like, it’s like, there’s always a they’re not all. Like, they’re not blood related. And I mean, a spouse is a chosen family. Just in case that was under debate. So. So it’s a
Lara Taylor 38:42
it depends on the perspective, right? If there’s a child, the child. That’s family, it’s just family, but we do choose our spouses.
Josué Cardona 38:51
Yes. Yeah. And and, yeah, I’m really curious, like, black widow was so good with the family stuff, then I’m my hopes for a fantastic four are very high, because that’s what the stories are about, right? It’s like, it’s not about Sure. There’s the science fiction aspect of it and all that stuff, but it’s really at its core about that. And, and yeah, I mean, I would, I would love it if they kind of skipped ahead. And and they have the kids too. So it’s like it’s larger. Because like, over the years, over many, many decades, the family grows and I think the kids are a fun aspect of that, too. That’ll be great. I can’t Yeah, that’ll be good. And we’re getting the eternals which is also just a family. My understanding and even the trailers that we’ve seen, like we see them having dinner and, and like being a family. That one’s give me because I don’t know the story.
Lara Taylor 39:53
I don’t know the Eternals that well either. Yeah, we really cool. Yeah,
Josué Cardona 39:56
I’m not sure how much of it They get I think there’s like a royal family aspect to it, but I’m not sure how much of that is, is there? Um, but that’s also good to see like, Yeah, I’d like to see real families that are good to not just not just dysfunctional and
Lara Taylor 40:13
Superman and Lois we’ve talked about before, but they still are hanging it like there’s there’s superhero stuff going on, but it’s still a family show. It is about the family and how this stuff affects the family.
Josué Cardona 40:27
Like Loki is my favorite Marvel TV show up to now and it’s and I like it more than a lot of the movies like I really, really like Loki. Now that it’s wrapped up, I think it was incredible.
Lara Taylor 40:39
I did not watch the last episode
Link Keller 40:41
Josué Cardona 40:43
I’m not saying anything, but it’s i thought you know, I really liked it. And still Superman and Lois is my favorite show on TV right now. And like, I think Loki is good. But every every Wednesday when I was like, oh, or like by Thursday, and I’ve hadn’t watched the episode I had to choose which one of the two to watch first. I picked Superman and Lois it is. It is good. And it is that part of it. It’s it’s because it’s all about the family relationship.
Lara Taylor 41:07
And you get the different dynamics. You get the brother dynamics, you get the relationship between Lois in each of the sons, you get the relationship between Clark and each of the sons, between Superman and everybody in the family and you get the parental like unit relationship. And it’s like
Josué Cardona 41:25
grandpa’s in there too grandpa’s in. There’s two grandpa’s technically, I don’t know how far you’ve seen. But there’s more family stuff too, that I won’t get into.
Lara Taylor 41:32
Yeah, yeah. I we’ve gotten, I think we’re four episodes behind. But yeah,
Josué Cardona 41:38
there’s more. There’s more family stuff. There’s a lot more family stuff. But that’s what the show is about. And like I think it does, it does a great job. It’s definitely it’s definitely a comic book show. But it’s there’s family stuff. Again, it’s not
Lara Taylor 41:53
football practices. And like,
Josué Cardona 41:58
Lara Taylor 41:59
backyard barbecues. And
Josué Cardona 42:01
we talked about Wandavision, right. Like, I mean, literally, she created a family that she that she didn’t have
Lara Taylor 42:07
yeah talk about chosen family.
Josué Cardona 42:11
Yeah, yeah. Tell me like it’s not a new thing. Right. I think I think that’s part of the humor of the beam of the power family. It’s like, we know, Tom, you don’t have to you don’t have to tell us. You have to be so aggressive about it. We get it.
Lara Taylor 42:27
And Black Widow talks about having like the Avengers was her family.
Josué Cardona 42:33
Yeah, I don’t. Yeah.
Lara Taylor 42:36
That was that was the thing that came up in endgame. Yeah, yeah. I
Josué Cardona 42:46
That one’s a little. I wonder. I haven’t thought too much about that. But it’s almost like I guess if there’s nowhere else for you. Right. And like, there’s only like, that’s, that’s different. Like, if you have a whole bunch of people to choose from
Link Keller 43:04
that’s not chosen family, those are your coworkers.
Josué Cardona 43:09
Yeah, that’s, that’s probably it
Lara Taylor 43:11
I’ve worked at places where it felt like family, right, that we just supported each other instead of the, I guess the opposite like, like, the like in the workplace wasn’t exactly the healthiest and like the managerial style, but like us as a, as a department, we felt like family and we would do thing, we would go to each other’s birthday parties and baby showers. And we would understand if people needed to take time off because of xy and z. And like we someone had a medical crisis, all of us were upset and crying. Things like that. So
Josué Cardona 43:49
I think you’re just too easy to family now that now that I hear you’re talking about it more? Just Yeah, I think. I don’t know.
Lara Taylor 43:56
I don’t feel like that in my current work.
Josué Cardona 43:58
My standards are too high for family. Down is onto something. That I mean, I mean, yeah, there’s a lot of situations where just put in and then you know, it feels good. I feel I feel like for blackwidow it’s kind of the I mean, the coworker thing is probably pretty accurate. It’s like, that’s just that’s just where you were all the time. Like you couldn’t you weren’t really anywhere else. So I’m glad that you feel like your family will
Lara Taylor 44:22
but still build those bonds, right, like I have. Yeah, you can.
Link Keller 44:29
Still a chosen family is just slightly less chosen-y
Josué Cardona 44:33
I think I think you don’t
Lara Taylor 44:35
have to you don’t have to have those feelings for your co workers. You don’t have to feel like they’re a family. You can just go into your job and be done. But building the relationships with them is different.
Link Keller 44:45
Josué Cardona 44:45
I think the surprising thing about blackwidow is that we saw her in that position. Like it doesn’t, her being with the Avengers didn’t feel like a family and that I mean it was we never got to see that. If it happened. It happened behind the scenes. We never really got to see them close. We got to see her mourn and be depressed and be like, double down on work in Infinity War and endgame and sacrifice. But like in the other movies, we don’t really, there wasn’t the banter and the joking and the and the like, again, there’s things that happen in Black Widow that like reference other movies and you’re like, oh, like that was a meaningful relationship to her like these things. These things mattered and we saw her. We saw a side of her that we didn’t get to see before and, and so I think that was really special.
Lara Taylor 45:31
Like I’m finally what was it Nina told me when we saw the movie. This is the Black Widow movie we needed 10 years ago.
Josué Cardona 45:38
I mean, a lot of people have written about that. There’s just like, this was I don’t know, like, Yeah, I would have loved
Lara Taylor 45:44
to have seen this after Civil War.
Josué Cardona 45:47
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but just like, the character wasn’t fleshed out. Like, it was good that she got she got a movie where she got to where we got to see the character.
Link Keller 45:56
she got to have dimension.
Josué Cardona 45:58
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just coworkers. Yep. Yep. That’s pretty much it. I guess. That’s what I was trying to say. Yeah. That was good. Yeah, well, again, I’m so so. Yeah, I think I think this is this is something that we see often, it’s just, it usually doesn’t hit me as hard as, obviously, it doesn’t hit the world as hard as when, when Fast and Furious, talks about family, but there was something about blackwidow that I really, really appreciate it and, and it it’s probably the fact that we had known the character for so long, and we never got to see her in that in that piece. And so there was like, there was an emotional payoff in a way or like the relationship we’ve had with her was very different. So to be able to see her now in a situation like this and like, have that felt felt really good. I think I think that’s a big part of why why I enjoyed it. And I’m I’m curious if that’s one of the reasons why. You know, other people like it as much. Because without that aspect of it, I mean, it was just been just been lower tier, Marvel movie stuff
Lara Taylor 47:16
another action spy movie
Josué Cardona 47:20
would have been like a Winter Soldier, kinda thing.
Link Keller 47:24
Lara Taylor 47:27
it really made me want more. Natasha Romanoff. And I’m so sad. One of my friends mentioned, his hot takes and it was the soulstone took the wrong Avenger.
Josué Cardona 47:48
We’ll see maybe Hawkeye it will be the best TV show. The best Marvel show?
Lara Taylor 47:53
Josué Cardona 47:54
No, you don’t think so? Ironically, Hawkeye got a whole bunch of family stuff that we got to see. Yeah. He actually does have the family. And we when the family disappears, and it’s at the beginning, that’s the opening and end game, right. They showed us enough. Previously there’s no and and that’s one of the reasons why Natasha did it to say, I mean, we didn’t know she had family at that point. But but that was one of the things right? It’s like he’s got a family to take care of. He should stick around. Yeah. Yeah, just saying. Hawkeye is gonna be great. That’s gonna be that’s gonna be a great,
Lara Taylor 48:46
Josué Cardona 48:46
Yep. You don’t think it’s gonna be good. What it is, it’s gonna be fantastic. You’re gonna love it. And then you’re going to eat your words. You’re gonna apologize. Remember? gt Radio 305 we’ll references. Later, when we talk about Hawkeye. Also a chosen family show.
Lara Taylor 49:06
Here’s my least favorite avenger.
Josué Cardona 49:13
And I mean, okay. Yeah. Don’t like the show.
Lara Taylor 49:21
Give me Kate bishop. Yeah. Give me that. Give me that.
Josué Cardona 49:27
She’s, yeah, she started. She started the show. Well, I think I think these family stories are good. I think we mentioned a whole bunch of them that are referenceable. And, and we have some some more in the library, as well, because this, this obviously comes up a lot. And I think it’s, I think it’s, um, it’s really useful to have versions of these that that feel relatable that feel like, even like something that you would like even even the parasocial aspects of like the ones that you kind of felt like a part of like When you when you said that Buffy his mom died, they grieved but I grieved, too. You know, I think a lot of us did. It was it felt we felt like a loss for us. And yeah, sometimes there’s there’s that when somebody dies in a in a show, there’s like, we kind of feel like a collective grief, like with all the other people who are also grieving. There’s, there’s, there’s I mean, tons and tons of good stories about family and yeah, dom is right? The power family.
Link Keller 50:29
Josué Cardona 50:30
There’s nothing we can do. All right, let us know. Let us know your favorite families.
Link Keller 50:37
Yeah, tell us your favorite famblies on
Josué Cardona 50:41
Link Keller 50:42
Geek Therapy. On the forum dot Geek Therapy dot org.
Josué Cardona 50:52
Links to all these things are in the show notes from our Geek Therapy visit Geek therapy.org thank you so much for listening. Remember, geek out and do good. We’ll be back next week.
Link Keller 51:06
Byyyyye! fambly, I love you.
Josué Cardona 51:10
Geek Therapy is a 501 c three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit Geek therapy.org
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Characters / Media
- Fast and Furious series / F9 / Dom Toretto
- The Lighthouse
- The Matrix: Resurrections
- Wonder Woman 84
- Black Widow / Natasha Romanoff
- Avengers series
- X-Men series
- Lilo and Stitch
- Batman / The Bat Family
- Buffy the Vampire Slayer
- Fantastic Four
- The Eternals
- Superman and Lois
Themes / Topics
* Chosen Family
* Social Supports
* Finding Oneself/Identity Development
* LGBT Issues
* Problem Solving
* Sacrifice for others
* Working with others
* Blended Family
* Bespoke Social Circles
* Other: Going (or not) to Movie Theaters during the pandemic
Links / Social Media
Check out the GT Network: network.geektherapy.com
GT Forum: forum.geektherapy.org
GT Discord: geektherapy.com/discord
GT Facebook Group: facebook.com/groups/geektherapy
Join the Conversation!
Who is your favorite family (fambly) in media?