Celebrating Juneteenth and Diversity in Disney

Originally published at: Celebrating Juneteenth and Diversity in Disney - The Happiest Pod on Earth

44: Ariel, Stef, and special guest Chance Calloway discuss Juneteenth, media representation, and Disney’s portrayal of Black characters. They highlight Juneteenth’s significance and embodiment of “we’re not free until we are all free.” The episode promotes authentic representations and diverse voices in future Disney projects and teaches audiences about The Transformation Trope, Projection Representation, and Black coded characters.


Summary of HPOE 44:

  • 00:00 Introduction: Meet Ariel, Stef, and Chance Calloway, and learn about their unique approaches to therapy, education, and creative arts.
  • 01:33 Juneteenth Significance: An in-depth look at Juneteenth, its history, and its recent recognition as a federal holiday. The hosts discuss its unique place among American holidays and its traditions.
  • 07:07 Media Representation: The importance of diverse representation in media, particularly in children’s films. The discussion includes the federal recognition of Juneteenth and calls for authentic portrayals of characters of color in Disney movies.
  • 10:18 Brandy Cinderella Movie: An exploration of the impact of the Brandy Cinderella movie on media representation and its continued relevance in promoting diversity.
  • 21:11 Black Panther: Reflecting on the success of Black Panther and its significance in showcasing Black excellence and representation both in front of and behind the camera.
  • 32:34 Princess Tiana: Critiquing Disney’s portrayal of Princess Tiana in The Princess and the Frog, and advocating for more genuine representations of protagonists of color.
  • 37:55 Black Coding in Disney Films: Discussing the concept of Black coding in Disney movies, the challenges in marketing diverse content, and the importance of amplifying diverse voices in future projects.
  • 43:36 Conclusion: Summarizing the episode’s key points on Juneteenth, media representation, and the portrayal of Black characters in Disney films. The hosts encourage listeners to engage with these critical topics.

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Ariel Landrum: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the happiest pod on Earth.

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I’m Ariel, a licensed therapist who uses clients’ passions and fandoms to help them grow and heal from trauma and mental development.

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Stefanie Bautista: And I’m Stef. I’m an educator who uses her passions and fandoms to educate the kids that I work with.

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Chance Calloway: I’m Chance Calloway. I’m a producer, filmmaker, musician, writer, all around multi hyphenate. Creativity is my passion.

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Stefanie Bautista: And happiest pod is where we dissect Disney mediums with a

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Ariel Landrum: critical lens. Why? Because we are more than just Stef, and we expect more from the mediums we consume.

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So, see, so I have a guest today. Chance, what are we talking about?

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Chance Calloway: Today we’re talking about Juneteenth, and we’re talking about representation.

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Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Yeah. Chance, as you all know, if you’ve been following us on our podcast and also have seen us at Comic Con or WonderCon,

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Chance is 1 of our very good friends, 1 of our most talented friends, like you said, multi hyphenate.

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And, you know, I feel even when this podcast was coming to its conception, we would organically have a lot of really good

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discussions about the way we consume media and the different things that we expect from it and also want to see from it in the future.

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So I hope that today’s discussion is gonna be very enlightening for those of you aren’t familiar with Juneteenth. So, Chance, would you be

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Ariel Landrum: able to explain what exactly is Juneteenth?

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It became recently a federal holiday, but just because it wasn’t a federal holiday, doesn’t mean that it wasn’t a holiday.

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Chance Calloway: Correct. Yes. Juneteenth, basically, is the embodiment of the term, we’re not free until we’re all free.

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So when, the Emancipation Proclamation was passed, some, black Americans were still enslaved.

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Some black Americans did not know that freedom had arrived.

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And on June 19th, that was the day that they did basically the final, like, enforcement, and made sure that the enslaved people were made free.

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And that’s when a lot of, people in the black community started celebrating it as a holiday.

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Ariel Landrum: I think it’s important to note because it’s hard for people to fathom not getting information immediately.

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Chance Calloway: Sure.

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Ariel Landrum: There’s an acknowledgment that we get media so quickly.

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We get news so quickly, especially, like, breaking news, reactions to it, that there isn’t this time to, like, digest and

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understand before you’ve moved on to the next thing.

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And I think that the fact that it became a holiday amongst the black community just shows, like, how important and informative it was.

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Chance Calloway: Absolutely. Suleens. Yeah. And I think, for a lot of people, there’s a a hitch that comes with thinking of American holidays,

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you know, and the American flag, things like that.

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We’ve seen you know, it’s been the media a lot because of the cover of Beyonce’s new album.

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A lot of, black Americans kind of don’t respect, like, holidays like the 4th July.

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So then when something like Juneteenth came along, that I can respect. That feels like a celebration.

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Ariel Landrum: And I think

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Stefanie Bautista: when it comes to holidays, there are diff there’s different layers of celebrating and even the word celebrating a holiday.

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Because, essentially, this is 1 of those holidays where it was a realization of something that hadn’t been realized, fully.

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When you’re talking about people celebrating the 4th July, they normally talk about barbecues and doing fun stuff and not,

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you know, the actual reason for the holiday.

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This is 1 of those holidays that kind of wakes us up to the different ways we celebrate and the different ways we honor certain

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people, especially when we’re talking about, honoring everyone equal.

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And, like, celebrating it with a purpose and not just celebrating to sell.

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Chance Calloway: And that that’s a really great point, Steph, because there’s a lot of holidays that, you know, have lost the meaning behind them for various reasons. Yeah.

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And people feel different ways depending on the holiday. But Yeah.

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Think about the majority of the holidays that we celebrate, it’s more because it’s a day off. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

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And there’s some aesthetic theme around it that we like.

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And we we celebrate Christmas or don’t even follow, like, the religion that Christmas is based on.

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So, like, holidays become other things that, you know, whereas Juneteenth is still very resonant for the reason that it exists.

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Stefanie Bautista: I’m coming from a standpoint where at school, that is your first foray into celebrating holidays and doing themed activities. Mhmm.

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And I think the way that I’ve been experiencing it in the school culture that I’m currently in, which is very diversity, equity,

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inclusion, and belonging based, we really take a deeper dive into what exactly are we celebrating or why exactly do we have that date.

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And if, you know, that means taking a little bit more time and not just doing the hand turkey or doing, you know, the snowman.

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I mean, that’s okay because we would rather have the kids have a bigger and full understanding of the holiday or the day off.

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Ariel Landrum: I know that there are some traditions that have come about for the black community in celebrating Juneteenth, including colors

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that you can wear and things that you could eat.

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Would you be able to share for audience what that is, or what you did?

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Chance Calloway: Sure. I mean, I I always celebrate many holidays just by nature of my bachelor. The

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Stefanie Bautista: Every day’s a holiday. Okay. You know,

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Chance Calloway: there are some Juneteenth cotillions, you know, which are which are very popular.

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A lot of people like to do the, the kinda Afrocentric colors of the red, green, and black.

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You know, some people have flags that are in those colors.

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I wanna get 1 myself, he got out my window.

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But, honestly, you know, when you talk about, you know, all your advice to the cookout, Juneteenth is a great time to have a cookout because it’s summertime.

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Cookouts are probably the most common ways to celebrate Juneteenth since it hasn’t always been a federal holiday, not everyone always got it off.

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So I don’t think a lot of families, you know, unless you lived in a community where it was celebrated, I don’t think it was something I knew about growing up. We never celebrated it.

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Stefanie Bautista: Interesting. I’m curious to know since it wasn’t a funeral holiday since recently, were there, like, adjacent weekends that

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you would take to honor during that week, or would you just, like, be more mindful? Yeah.

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Chance Calloway: It was more just being being mindful Okay. For sure. Yeah.

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Because, you know, it it was 1 of those things where if you’re trying to get together with the family, it was like, before

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the July is coming up, March is just something again.

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I think that’s another sign of why it is important for some things to get officially recognized. Yes.

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Because now that it’s federal holiday, people can plan around it, make time for it, make space.

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Stefanie Bautista: I love that.

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Ariel Landrum: My stepmom, how she celebrates Juneteenth is they go to church. Like, there’ll be church celebrations.

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And that, was, like, the only spaces where you would openly talk about, and it was to praise that you got the news, that you were delivered, that you were free. Both. Yes. Yeah.

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And it was it was interesting because now that it’s a federal holiday, it’s it has her reorganizing.

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You know, my grandbaby is out of school, like, has the day off, will be able to, like, do something with me.

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It was a talked about thing around the church, but wasn’t a talked about thing, like, in the if that makes sense.

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Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Yeah. I think there’s even a bigger realization that because us working folks are people who are in that socioeconomic background of working all the time.

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If they don’t have a day off to do something, they will most likely not pay attention to it because everything is so work

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centered and everything, you know, pretty much goes off of what your schedule is to be able to make a living.

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And I think having Juneteenth off is so important because, like you said, all of these other thoughts and all of this other

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planning just comes because they you know, I have

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Ariel Landrum: a day off to myself, for my family, for people of my heritage.

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It’s been federally recognized, and something comes from recognition.

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And then looking at, like, recognition, this is a Disney pun.

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So I’m wondering for you when you think of, representation and black recognition, like, who comes up for you? Or what shows or TV?

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Chance Calloway: Brittany can be number 1. It’s always gonna be the only Cinderella that matters to me, which is the Brandy Cinderella.

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You know, also, you know, shout out to the late Whitney Houston, who’s the very godmother and the late Natalie Patel who was, you know, 1 of the stepsisters.

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That to me was, like, peak Disney. I mean, the world stopped.

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Evan was watching the wonderful world of Disney on ABC that night because, you know, Whitney Houston, Randy White, and Cinderella.

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That to me is the ultimate Disney representation still to this day.

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Stefanie Bautista: I love that. I know me and Chance have connected so many times, maybe countless times, over the impact of that particular

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Cinderella and how important it was to see diversity on, the wonderful world of Disney, which is something that everybody stopped to watch back then.

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Ariel Landrum: Fun. For us, the prince is Filipino.

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Stefanie Bautista: I was just gonna say that.

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Chance Calloway: Voice. Yeah. God, I Yeah.

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Ariel Landrum: I think, the interesting thing too is that that Cinderella is so loved. Brandy has been asked back.

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Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. It’s Yeah. She is reprising her role as Cinderella in Descendants, The Rise of Red, which I think at this point has not come out yet. It has not come out yet.

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But Descendants, if, some of you listeners don’t know, all of Disney Princesses basically are mummies, and they have kids,

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and, they are all together in this series, and it has been huge.

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Even when we went to Disney Channel Night Yeah.

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A lot of people dressed up as descendants characters. Yeah.

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Even though we we thought it was 90 centric.

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Did we see a Brandy Cinderella there?

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Ariel Landrum: We’re a see No. I saw a lot of Neil Thermopolis. Rinaldi from Genovia. Yeah.

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Chance Calloway: Yeah. As long as

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Stefanie Bautista: his desire. Which? By Whitney Houston. Yes. No.

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I was just reminded of that on my reels, and I was just like, ugh, yes. Yes. Fed my soul.

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Chance Calloway: Whitney used to get, like, a, a posthumous, Disney Legend Award.

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Stefanie Bautista: Whitney Houston, huge driving force in actually many Disney things that did not that

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Chance Calloway: she did girls that she did girls too. Yes. At least yeah.

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Stefanie Bautista: It’s really funny because the reel that I saw was her talking to Howie and Kevin from the Backstreet Boys because they were

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on a video for the song from Princess Diaries. The song was called Supergirl.

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Chance Calloway: There’s a really big video of, Eric Von Detten. Right? He’s in the Princess Diaries. Mhmm.

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Going up to Whitney Houston, like, to introduce himself, and Bobby Brown be like, I’m Bobby Brown. I’m Bobby Brown. It’s all quality. It’s so funny. Yeah. Ready? Cinderella definitely was huge for me.

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Interesting thing that we bring up the Apollo situation because as much as I adore him and I would not change anything by

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his performance of, you know, him being that film, Disney has not yet given us a black male glory. Yeah. Yeah.

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And that bothers me to this day.

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Ariel Landrum: Yes. Because Naveen is brown. Right. He’s a brown person. Yeah.

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Naveen from From a a made up place, so we can’t even From person the frog.

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Chance Calloway: Voiced by Brazilian

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Ariel Landrum: Yes. Yes.

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Chance Calloway: Even with the live action, Little Mermaid last year, that only, you know, was Prince Eric not black, which, again, I don’t have a problem with that.

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But then Chitin also was not black, played by a Spanish actor. Mhmm.

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So I I would love to see a Disney royal male, you know?

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Even Prince Eric didn’t have a black he had a black mom, but, like, he didn’t have it now. That’s, like Yep.

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You guys are doing everything you can to not put a black man in the crown. I’m on Disney.

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You know, Whoopi Goldberg, also was in, you know, Cinderella.

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So shout out to Whoopi Goldberg, but also her prince was Victor Garber, who was not black.

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Again, I didn’t no problem with with Victor Garber, but just, you know, as a kid as a kid, especially a gay black kid, yes,

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I wouldn’t be wearing purple and wearing a crown too.

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So, you know, it I started noticing.

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I was like, where’s where’s this these black, you know, prince or king? And Right. Yeah. Still waiting.

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Stefanie Bautista: I think the closest we get to that is Black Panther.

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That’s Closest we have to a black king Yeah.

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Who comes from lineage that is royal. However, that was a Marvel concept. Yeah. It wasn’t initially a Disney concept.

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Ariel Landrum: And what had already been established, right, in comics and lore versus, like, when we’re trying to make up a whole new character

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for for T’Challa, him living in Africa being African was essential to who he was.

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Like, we can’t change the the, phenotype of that character, and it may exactly.

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Chance Calloway: Right. And that was also I always forget that Marvel is now under the Disney umbrella, but, like, yeah. Black Panther. That was definitely an experience.

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Stefanie Bautista: So let me ask. I know we talk a lot about black representation and the different ways that it shows up in Disney movies.

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We talked about princess and the frog where essentially Tiana and Naveen.

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Tiana really turns into a frog for most of the movie.

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Now we have just experienced a little resurgence of the Lion King because it is celebrating its anniversary, and they just

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had a Hollywood Bowl performance that people are talking about.

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And when I think about Mufasa, who was voiced by James Earl Jones, that is a very powerful character to mute.

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However, it was masked by not seeing James Earl Jones, and he was Darth Vader, which you did not see his face.

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Ariel Landrum: And when he got unmasked Yeah. Jeff really was that James.

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Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Definitely not James Earl Jones. Right.

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Do you think he could have been represented a little bit better?

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Chance Calloway: I think the the James Earl Jones thing is an interesting case because both James Earl Jones and Madge Sinclair played king and queen in Coming to America.

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Stefanie Bautista: Mhmm.

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Chance Calloway: So it almost kind of felt like shout out type of casting, and James j Jones has such an iconic voice.

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There are very few things about The Lion King that I would change. Mhmm. I wouldn’t film Mufasa. That’s enough.

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Ariel Landrum: That’s not a little pic that’s staging. Like, that

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Stefanie Bautista: is the that’s literally the plot 0,

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Chance Calloway: no. But, I feel like if Disney had done its due diligence and had more representation for people who essentially were not

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white, The Lion King wouldn’t feel so, you know, in that way, you know, because it’s like, okay. Period.

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It’s set in Africa a lot, not all, but a lot of, you know, black voice actors.

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But every character on screen is an animal.

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So enjoyable film and, of course, do that project projection representation, which is, you know, you do that a lot when you don’t have enough of it.

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But, yeah, I feel like Y King was great.

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Would have been great if they had followed that up a lot sooner with the Black Princess movie.

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Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Would you say the Broadway production kind of does what what should have been for that that because the production is very dive

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Chance Calloway: Yeah. Okay. That’s that’s a really great that’s a really great question. I have complicated feelings about that.

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Stefanie Bautista: Why not? I saw I’ve seen the Broadway performance on Broadway, actually, as a kid, and then I’ve seen iterations of it because they have it at Disney World.

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And aside from some of the dancers, it is a mainly it is an all black cast. Yeah. It’s beautifully done.

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Chance Calloway: But they and they they’ve employed so many black actors, you know, because of that production.

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Though interestingly, the first symbol was Jason Rae’s who was adopted, and you don’t know what his background was.

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So there’s no telling if he was actually, you know, a black actor.

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Stefanie Bautista: Is this the original Broadway film?

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Chance Calloway: The original Broadway film. Yeah. Maheep’s Jason Reinschaun ran away.

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I’m surprised that we’re talking about it at all.

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I I still feel like the Broadway show, the production, even though you have black actors, is still being told a story about animals. You know?

00:15:26,305 –> 00:15:30,465
So, like, again, I don’t begrudge the fact that it’s employing a lot of black actors.

00:15:30,465 –> 00:15:33,930
But for me, it’s, like, still not represent representation. You know why?

00:15:33,930 –> 00:15:36,970
Because the director, Julie Taymor, is not black.

00:15:36,970 –> 00:15:41,975
Songwriters, Tim Rice, Ellen Joc, they’re not black. Alipo Lim, of course, is black. Right?

00:15:41,975 –> 00:15:43,895
So so there is there is that touch there.

00:15:43,895 –> 00:15:47,949
But for me, you know, the strip writers were not black.

00:15:47,949 –> 00:15:50,050
So that’s the complicated part about representation.

00:15:50,430 –> 00:15:55,230
To have Matt Damon tell it, it only matters if you have representation in front of the camera, but that’s not true.

00:15:55,230 –> 00:15:55,694
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Yeah.

00:15:56,014 –> 00:15:57,774
Chance Calloway: So that’s why I said it’s a complicated question.

00:15:57,774 –> 00:16:02,334
Do you think there’s a type of representation to be found in The Lion King?

00:16:02,334 –> 00:16:04,320
But I think there are better options now.

00:16:04,560 –> 00:16:04,800
Stefanie Bautista: I I

00:16:04,800 –> 00:16:10,100
Ariel Landrum: think you are bringing up a a crucial point because I think that’s what made Black Panther successful.

00:16:10,240 –> 00:16:10,640
Chance Calloway: Yes.

00:16:10,640 –> 00:16:15,365
Ariel Landrum: When both people behind and in front of the camera were telling the story of a black perspective.

00:16:15,585 –> 00:16:16,085
Chance Calloway: Yes.

00:16:16,145 –> 00:16:25,450
Ariel Landrum: Even though the character was created by, I believe, Stan Lee, who was AAA white man, it got taken on further by the black community, and they told the story.

00:16:25,510 –> 00:16:30,070
Correct me if I’m wrong, audience, but I I do believe I have my comic lore on point.

00:16:30,070 –> 00:16:32,070
Chance Calloway: It’s good. Maybe Stan Lee co created. But Yeah.

00:16:32,070 –> 00:16:36,214
Stefanie Bautista: Ariel, you are right. It was created or Black Panther was created by Stanley and Jack.

00:16:36,214 –> 00:16:37,915
Chance Calloway: And Jack Kirby. And Kirby.

00:16:37,975 –> 00:16:41,514
Ariel Landrum: Thank you. Thank you. Wait. I just wanted to mention Moon Girl.

00:16:41,700 –> 00:16:45,000
Chance Calloway: Moon Girl and Deviled Animus dinosaur. Yes. And Miles Morales.

00:16:45,140 –> 00:16:47,380
Ariel Landrum: Yes. Morales. Yeah. Yes. K. Yes.

00:16:47,380 –> 00:16:50,120
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Wonderful, wonderful characters. They Yes. Marvel.

00:16:50,435 –> 00:16:55,575
Ariel Landrum: Marvel. Marvel once again. Like, we don’t have a black Miles Morales in Disney yet.

00:16:55,715 –> 00:17:00,990
We have Donald Glover as the prowler, and he mentions that he has a nephew.

00:17:01,130 –> 00:17:07,870
And we have Jamie Foxx, and he mentions there must be a black Spider Man somewhere. Those have been the droplets we’ve

00:17:08,054 –> 00:17:10,215
Chance Calloway: Yes. Yep. The Moongirl Devil Dinosaur. Yeah.

00:17:10,215 –> 00:17:11,174
Stefanie Bautista: We’re getting very much

00:17:11,335 –> 00:17:12,155
Chance Calloway: great soundtrack.

00:17:12,294 –> 00:17:17,890
Ariel Landrum: And I think if you watch the, kids’ Marvel movies, there’s, like, Spider Man and Friends.

00:17:18,110 –> 00:17:21,470
Stefanie Bautista: Oh, yeah. And his amazing friends? Yeah. Yep. Miles Miles is in there. Yep.

00:17:21,470 –> 00:17:22,350
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Okay?

00:17:22,350 –> 00:17:23,550
Chance Calloway: Yeah. Okay. See, I think

00:17:23,710 –> 00:17:24,030
Ariel Landrum: Cute.

00:17:24,030 –> 00:17:26,005
Stefanie Bautista: Very cute. But, yeah, all good mentions.

00:17:26,225 –> 00:17:27,524
Chance Calloway: Storm x men 97?

00:17:27,825 –> 00:17:28,678
Stefanie Bautista: Yes. We are

00:17:28,784 –> 00:17:32,385
Ariel Landrum: talking nonstop about x men. We’ve completely forgot about a star.

00:17:32,385 –> 00:17:37,279
Chance Calloway: For me, there’s still a complete delineation in my brain between Marvel and Disney.

00:17:37,419 –> 00:17:40,940
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. You know? It’s fine because I think that’s just how our brains work.

00:17:40,940 –> 00:17:41,179
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:17:41,179 –> 00:17:44,554
Stefanie Bautista: And we can’t like, the conglomerate is conglomerating. Yeah. Right.

00:17:44,554 –> 00:17:49,675
And it shouldn’t be that way Yeah. Sometimes. But, yeah. Aurora, a queen, a queen. Yeah.

00:17:49,675 –> 00:17:51,775
But she is definitely a royal man.

00:17:52,075 –> 00:17:53,010
Chance Calloway: Level mute.

00:17:53,330 –> 00:17:54,690
Stefanie Bautista: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That’s true.

00:17:54,690 –> 00:17:58,790
Ariel Landrum: And then we have, very powerful character in, Marvel.

00:17:59,010 –> 00:17:59,650
Chance Calloway: Nick Fury.

00:17:59,650 –> 00:18:02,870
Ariel Landrum: Yes. Nick Fury. Nick Fury, but he’s always had an eye patch.

00:18:03,075 –> 00:18:04,835
Chance Calloway: True. True. True. Yeah.

00:18:04,835 –> 00:18:07,155
Stefanie Bautista: But he’s the orchestrator though, so he’s the guy behind.

00:18:07,155 –> 00:18:09,875
Chance Calloway: He’s the guy that created yeah. Put the Avengers together.

00:18:09,875 –> 00:18:15,309
Ariel Landrum: And then we are gonna have is it Fast who’s, from Ms. Marvel? Photon? Yeah. Photon.

00:18:15,309 –> 00:18:17,630
Chance Calloway: Photon. Tiana Paris, amazing actress.

00:18:17,630 –> 00:18:18,270
Stefanie Bautista: Yes. Yeah.

00:18:18,270 –> 00:18:19,250
Chance Calloway: Amazing actress.

00:18:19,575 –> 00:18:21,355
Ariel Landrum: We we talked a little bit about Warrable.

00:18:21,414 –> 00:18:25,115
We talked about Lion King, even in the concept of, Broadway.

00:18:25,174 –> 00:18:29,799
And I know that there is a lot of viral stuff happening with the Hollywood Bowl situation.

00:18:29,940 –> 00:18:32,840
I’m not touching that, because I don’t think it’s appropriate.

00:18:33,380 –> 00:18:35,960
I’m actually gonna honor the fact that Jason Weaver

00:18:36,605 –> 00:18:42,445
Stefanie Bautista: sang, and I thought that was beautiful because, I know Chance knows a little probably a little bit more about the story, but

00:18:42,445 –> 00:18:47,940
it was very interesting how they approached his family in compensating him for the Lion King. Right?

00:18:48,000 –> 00:18:50,419
Because he was this voice of Simba.

00:18:51,200 –> 00:19:00,915
The recording of I just can’t wait to be king was so big that, obviously, Disney was gonna pay a lot of money to him, but in 1 of 2 ways.

00:19:01,055 –> 00:19:04,755
And 1 of it was through royalties, and 1 of it was through a lump sum.

00:19:04,840 –> 00:19:09,820
Chance Calloway: I I watched the, interview with him, like, last year. Yeah. Yeah. I remember him talking about it.

00:19:09,880 –> 00:19:12,645
I remember the baseline being he’s taken care.

00:19:12,805 –> 00:19:16,425
Stefanie Bautista: Long story short, I know you guys can probably, like, look this up on Wikipedia.

00:19:16,805 –> 00:19:21,945
Mom was savvy enough to say, we are not gonna take the lump sum. I want to take the royalties.

00:19:22,289 –> 00:19:28,450
And he has made so much more through the royalties rather than the lump sum because at the time, of course, you know, a big

00:19:28,450 –> 00:19:31,625
chunk of money is gonna look very appealing. Yes.

00:19:31,625 –> 00:19:33,965
But mom thought forward and was like, no.

00:19:34,024 –> 00:19:39,085
We are gonna get paid for the rest of eternity because this song is gonna live forever.

00:19:39,409 –> 00:19:41,730
And, yeah, he’s been duly compensated for that.

00:19:41,730 –> 00:19:48,149
And I think that’s, you know, 1 of the really nice moments, but at the same time, mom had to be savvy enough to think that far ahead.

00:19:48,335 –> 00:19:50,495
And, you know, way to go mama bear for doing that.

00:19:50,495 –> 00:19:57,110
Chance Calloway: Oh, and for the Disney fans, I mean, Jason Bieber probably on screen is best known as the older brother and smart guy. Yep. You know?

00:19:57,190 –> 00:19:59,910
So and that that was a decision all the time when I was a kid.

00:19:59,910 –> 00:20:04,890
Stefanie Bautista: All the time. Yeah. Fun fact, I actually took my SATs in the same room as Taj Mahri

00:20:06,465 –> 00:20:06,965
Ariel Landrum: Randall.

00:20:07,184 –> 00:20:13,445
Stefanie Bautista: And it was, like, a joke between me and a friend of mine who were taking the SATs was, like, I bet the smart guy is gonna pass.

00:20:13,870 –> 00:20:19,550
Chance Calloway: I have such an artistic crush, and I have to be specific about that because I also normally have crushes.

00:20:19,550 –> 00:20:21,725
But I have such an artistic crush on Taj Morrie.

00:20:21,725 –> 00:20:25,164
He’s 1 of our most underrated comedian. He is so funny.

00:20:25,164 –> 00:20:26,705
The way he can spin a line.

00:20:26,765 –> 00:20:33,190
He’s also gonna be a tap dancer, a a wonderful singer. I adore Taj Mahry. Adore, adore, adore, adore, adore, adore.

00:20:33,330 –> 00:20:35,330
So I can’t believe that you were in a room with them.

00:20:35,330 –> 00:20:40,955
Ariel Landrum: That’s TV. Talking about representation, we have sort of touched on it.

00:20:41,275 –> 00:20:45,195
We looked it up, and the term seems to be called a transformation trope.

00:20:45,195 –> 00:20:47,915
So would you be willing to explain to the audience what exactly that

00:20:48,075 –> 00:20:55,820
Chance Calloway: A transformation trope, while it has a lot of, I guess, sub tropes, essentially, it is when a protagonist is turned into some

00:20:55,820 –> 00:21:03,095
other type of creature, which is particularly common in certain Disney animated films where the protagonists usually I think

00:21:03,095 –> 00:21:09,880
maybe all are protagonists of color who are then turned into an animal for the main duration of the film.

00:21:10,340 –> 00:21:15,085
So we saw that probably most notably in, The Princess and the Frog.

00:21:15,705 –> 00:21:19,725
So Brother Bear, what’s the what, Emperor’s new Groot, Cousteau.

00:21:20,345 –> 00:21:27,170
Sol may be angry in the fact that it felt like a subversion at first because at first, he wasn’t, you know, an animal, but

00:21:27,170 –> 00:21:29,650
then he put him in animal, and that’s when I got mad.

00:21:29,650 –> 00:21:39,865
Seems to happen disproportionately at least to, protagonist of color, almost as if they are not allowed to carry the majority of the movie looking like themself.

00:21:40,085 –> 00:21:45,880
Ariel Landrum: We are looking up, like, just the history, the transformation trope, and it was started off in the horror genre.

00:21:46,580 –> 00:21:49,800
You know, this monster needing to transform into a human.

00:21:49,985 –> 00:21:58,120
And we see that with, like, Beauty and the Beast, but we’re always painted the idea of empathy towards the beat. Right?

00:21:58,120 –> 00:22:01,020
This is a curse that it shouldn’t have happened.

00:22:01,720 –> 00:22:08,845
When we’re following these narratives, like, with Tiana, yes, she’s really fighting to not be a frog and trying to find ways,

00:22:08,905 –> 00:22:14,160
but the empathy we have towards her plight isn’t the fact that she turned into a frog.

00:22:14,320 –> 00:22:18,100
It’s the fact that she’s not able to open up her restaurant.

00:22:18,560 –> 00:22:24,335
Chance Calloway: Yeah. I don’t think there was ever any concern plot wise that, like, Tiana’s gonna stay up for all.

00:22:24,335 –> 00:22:27,855
Like, that never seems to be Yeah. Her jiving concern. You know?

00:22:27,855 –> 00:22:29,210
So I think I think you’re right about that.

00:22:29,210 –> 00:22:34,489
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Because there was a, with Beauty and the Beast, like, it was like the roses running her. Right? She accepted being a frog.

00:22:34,489 –> 00:22:38,923
Like, the end of it was she was just gonna live in the bean in the in the bayou in the

00:22:38,923 –> 00:22:44,115
Chance Calloway: bayou. The most disrespectful thing that they did with Tiana was have Randy Newman write that soundtrack. Yeah.

00:22:46,335 –> 00:22:52,190
This feels on 2 levels. 1, Randy Newman was definitely like a Pixar kind of guy, you know.

00:22:52,250 –> 00:22:57,130
Whenever you would get a Disney princess film, you had on Make It of Stefanie Schwartz.

00:22:57,130 –> 00:23:02,965
There was a specific sound that you wanted, and they hyped up Princess and the Frog as we just turned to 2 d animation Yeah.

00:23:03,125 –> 00:23:07,380
A return to, like, you know, the Musicals. Yes. The musical aspect of it.

00:23:07,540 –> 00:23:11,060
Then it being Randy Newman, it hit your ear completely differently

00:23:11,220 –> 00:23:11,620
Ariel Landrum: Yeah.

00:23:11,700 –> 00:23:15,780
Chance Calloway: Than the other Disney Princess songs. Even Enchanted, which I think came out the year before Yeah.

00:23:15,940 –> 00:23:20,825
Had a very old school kind of feel while also feeling new and fresh.

00:23:21,525 –> 00:23:29,429
And I just feel like like Almost There is 1 of the most, mundane I watch songs that Disney is ever in my opinion.

00:23:29,429 –> 00:23:36,745
Stefanie Bautista: I mean, we love Randy Newman for other things, but I think Chance does have a point where if you’re evoking emotion, especially

00:23:36,745 –> 00:23:39,105
from a princess who is wanting something Yeah.

00:23:39,305 –> 00:23:45,240
There has to be, you know and the playing field has already been set because of the princesses that came before.

00:23:45,240 –> 00:23:45,720
Chance Calloway: Yes.

00:23:45,720 –> 00:23:53,245
Stefanie Bautista: And I think, you know, as as much as maybe during the time that maybe he was just available or because of the success of Pixar,

00:23:53,385 –> 00:23:59,970
Toy Story, and all, you know, the like, who knows what the decision making could have been, but I think emotion wise, I I

00:23:59,970 –> 00:24:03,490
would have to agree with Chance because almost there’s a cute song. Yeah.

00:24:03,490 –> 00:24:09,525
I like it, but is it on the level of, you know, what’s another part of your world Yeah.

00:24:09,725 –> 00:24:13,105
With a big crescendo with, you know, a voice to match?

00:24:13,245 –> 00:24:15,905
I don’t think that that’s 1 of the songs that I immediately

00:24:15,980 –> 00:24:18,059
Chance Calloway: see. As we know, Anika Noni Rose could sing it.

00:24:18,059 –> 00:24:18,799
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Absolutely.

00:24:18,860 –> 00:24:23,580
Chance Calloway: You know? Yeah. So I will say though, Friends on the Other Side is a top tier villain song.

00:24:23,580 –> 00:24:24,299
Stefanie Bautista: Oh, yeah.

00:24:24,299 –> 00:24:27,865
Chance Calloway: So Yeah. Maybe I should take back everything I said about Randy Newman.

00:24:28,885 –> 00:24:30,165
Ariel Landrum: Or maybe he can only write villains.

00:24:30,165 –> 00:24:32,025
Chance Calloway: Or maybe he can only write villains. Yeah.

00:24:32,405 –> 00:24:37,670
Ariel Landrum: Now I’m not a black woman, and, you aren’t a black woman, but maybe you could talk a little bit about this.

00:24:37,730 –> 00:24:46,465
My friends who are black women have said their problem with Tiana is that, she had a really big dream, but here was our first

00:24:46,465 –> 00:24:49,410
black princess, and she has to work.

00:24:49,490 –> 00:24:49,810
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:24:49,810 –> 00:24:53,270
Ariel Landrum: And the only way she can be successful is if she works.

00:24:53,650 –> 00:24:59,110
And that that, continues to feed this trope that black women don’t get to have her ask her time off.

00:24:59,475 –> 00:25:07,250
Chance Calloway: Yes. So many, if not all of the previous Disney princesses, specifically the ones that are legitimately, like, marrying into

00:25:07,250 –> 00:25:10,450
royalty or whatever, their finale is a wedding. Yeah.

00:25:10,450 –> 00:25:14,630
And Tiana is is me and my prince are now running this rest.

00:25:15,465 –> 00:25:22,370
And while, yes, they just spent an hour and a half telling us that this was her dream, it’s kinda like, she can’t just be a princess. Mhmm. You know?

00:25:22,370 –> 00:25:23,650
She has to make a broke prince.

00:25:23,650 –> 00:25:24,789
Ariel Landrum: Yes. A broke prince.

00:25:25,010 –> 00:25:29,010
Chance Calloway: Yeah. And, again, that’s what happens when you have limited representation. Yeah.

00:25:29,010 –> 00:25:37,015
If there were multiple black Disney princesses, we wouldn’t be so nitpicky about about 1 specific 1 because there would be

00:25:37,015 –> 00:25:40,215
other, storylines, other personalities, those kind of things.

00:25:40,215 –> 00:25:44,549
But right now, even I think right now, there’s still just Tiana. We’re talking about animation wise.

00:25:44,549 –> 00:25:49,965
We still got we’ve got multiple white princesses since Tiana, and we still only have Tiana.

00:25:50,265 –> 00:25:57,840
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Unless you are decide to bring in, like, Maribel and you have Shuri, like, there are no other n. Correct us if we’re wrong.

00:25:57,840 –> 00:26:03,200
Now there will be a Ariel Junior animated series. Oh.

00:26:03,200 –> 00:26:06,725
And, it’s, I guess, you’d say, like, baby toddler Ariel.

00:26:06,725 –> 00:26:10,645
And, it’s coming on Disney plus, and that is, like, digital animation.

00:26:10,645 –> 00:26:12,790
So it’s like animation, but also looks 3 d.

00:26:12,950 –> 00:26:18,550
And she is a black Ariel, but I’m unsure if she is supposed to be younger version of live action Ariel

00:26:18,790 –> 00:26:19,030
Chance Calloway: Right.

00:26:19,110 –> 00:26:21,850
Ariel Landrum: Or just happens to be. Yeah. Right. But hasn’t come out yet.

00:26:21,985 –> 00:26:24,705
Stefanie Bautista: But then also still that’s not a completely original

00:26:25,185 –> 00:26:25,385
Chance Calloway: Right.

00:26:25,585 –> 00:26:27,685
Ariel Landrum: Area. And is not a movie.

00:26:27,745 –> 00:26:28,945
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. And not a movie.

00:26:28,945 –> 00:26:37,510
Chance Calloway: Yeah. And, you know, Disney execs, if you guys are listening to this podcast, I would highly suggest maybe adapting Mufaro’s Beautiful Daughters by John Steptoe.

00:26:38,050 –> 00:26:46,335
Beautiful story, very popular with whole generation thanks to reading Rainbow, you know, and and and ripe for adaptation. Right for adaptation.

00:26:46,555 –> 00:26:54,040
There, Mufara’s Beautiful Daughters is about, a man who lives in a village, and the, the, the king is looking for a wife.

00:26:54,500 –> 00:27:00,285
And so he’s got his 2 daughters who he loves equally, but, of course, 1 is just so mean and so nice. Cool.

00:27:00,745 –> 00:27:02,425
So she sets out on her own.

00:27:02,665 –> 00:27:04,285
The sisters are supposed to go together.

00:27:04,425 –> 00:27:10,600
She sets out on her own, to go, meet the king because she’s sure that she’s gonna be, you know, the next queen.

00:27:10,600 –> 00:27:14,280
Then, Bufaro’s other daughter sets off when she was supposed to later.

00:27:14,280 –> 00:27:17,765
And they basically have 2 very different, trips.

00:27:17,904 –> 00:27:21,345
They encounter the same, people and obstacles Uh-huh.

00:27:21,424 –> 00:27:26,230
But their personalities change how, you know, how easy their trips are.

00:27:26,230 –> 00:27:27,750
And it has such a wonderful ending.

00:27:27,750 –> 00:27:32,395
It’s a great story, and I’ve been wondering why it hasn’t been adapted before.

00:27:32,395 –> 00:27:35,595
But I I think it would be an amazing Disney animated cartoon.

00:27:35,595 –> 00:27:42,320
The Rider of the Last Dragon, when that film came out, it was kind of like a relief because now Mulan no longer had to carry the burdens

00:27:43,020 –> 00:27:43,179
Stefanie Bautista: of

00:27:43,179 –> 00:27:48,080
Chance Calloway: being, you know, like, only Princess. And it’s kinda like, yeah, we just need we need more of that.

00:27:48,299 –> 00:27:57,155
Stefanie Bautista: I’m wanting to see a little bit more 3 d animated first, like, part of Disney because, Frozen, Moana, they’re all in that kind of realm.

00:27:57,215 –> 00:28:00,760
I wonder if they’re gonna go that way with A Black Princess.

00:28:00,820 –> 00:28:03,060
I think that would this is the time. I mean Yeah.

00:28:03,220 –> 00:28:07,140
We’ve done many things now that are not animated, but 3 d animated.

00:28:07,140 –> 00:28:10,235
And I think, you know, this would be the perfect time to do something for them.

00:28:10,235 –> 00:28:16,955
Chance Calloway: Yes. Also, I mean, again, shout out to Nika Noni Rose who voiced Princess Tiana when they were adapting all the princesses

00:28:16,955 –> 00:28:19,630
for their scenes in, record number 2 Yep.

00:28:19,750 –> 00:28:25,350
Anika spoke with the animators about how to make sure that they didn’t whitewash Tiana.

00:28:25,350 –> 00:28:33,164
Because the initial images remember there was a whole controversy that Tiana just looked a lot a light lighter skin. Her nose was smaller. And so Anika Hair.

00:28:33,164 –> 00:28:35,360
And her hair was a different texture. Yes.

00:28:35,440 –> 00:28:37,720
And so Anika, like, worked with them to make sure that Yeah.

00:28:37,840 –> 00:28:42,640
You know, Tiana maintained the same blackness that she had in her own film. Yeah.

00:28:42,640 –> 00:28:48,865
And I think that’s admirable, and that’s not something that probably would have been possible even, like, 2 decades ago. Yeah. Definitely.

00:28:49,005 –> 00:28:52,820
Ariel Landrum: And and Stef and I have talked about in, like, the evolution of the Disney princess.

00:28:52,820 –> 00:28:56,280
Like, Anika made sure that Tiana was left handed like her.

00:28:56,340 –> 00:28:59,765
Like, that was an intentional thing that she had a discussion with.

00:28:59,845 –> 00:29:05,685
And I think by then, we’d seen, like, the power of princesses, so there was this more desire to insert.

00:29:05,685 –> 00:29:10,590
But I think prior to that, not many people had ideas about their character.

00:29:10,810 –> 00:29:13,050
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. To personalize them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:29:13,050 –> 00:29:18,935
Well, speaking of Tiana, I know that at the Disney Parks, we’re gonna have 2 new rides, new as in refurbished.

00:29:19,395 –> 00:29:24,855
We’re doing away with the old and ushering in the new because Tiana’s Bayou Adventure, which was previously Splash Mountain,

00:29:25,160 –> 00:29:30,140
is set to open this month in Disney World, and I think very soon at Disneyland.

00:29:30,520 –> 00:29:35,055
And it’s funny because I’ve seen a lot of reels that basically take us to the whole ride. Yeah.

00:29:35,055 –> 00:29:38,415
I know by now many people have been on splashbound, so we know kind of how it ends. Right?

00:29:38,415 –> 00:29:40,275
You go down and then you the splash.

00:29:41,055 –> 00:29:48,630
But, I think it’s very interesting that they’re pretty much giving us a whole run through of what the ride looks like. Yeah.

00:29:48,630 –> 00:29:54,575
And I think, you know, on a positive note, it’s showing the kind of progression of all of the animatronics and how beautiful

00:29:54,715 –> 00:29:58,865
they are now because you have other Disney parks doing the Frozen ride Yeah.

00:29:59,115 –> 00:30:03,910
Over at, Tokyo, and there’s the Tangled ride at Tokyo Disney too.

00:30:04,210 –> 00:30:08,950
All of the animatronics are much more lifelike, and they are, you know, very

00:30:17,230 –> 00:30:24,195
like, kind of preserve the mystery, and the magic of being on a ride and seeing these things. I don’t know. What do you all think?

00:30:24,355 –> 00:30:33,970
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. I have seen the behind the scenes even when they were just showing the animatronics and not on the rides. And it they were very impressive. They look lifelike. There’s more movement.

00:30:34,270 –> 00:30:42,765
And I think it’s going to be, at least at Disneyland, now a shock comparison of, like, why is this ride have such realistic animatronic Yeah. And others.

00:30:42,765 –> 00:30:47,745
Stefanie Bautista: And then you see Jakey old Captain Sparrow, and he’s just like, where are you looking, sir?

00:30:48,850 –> 00:30:53,570
Ariel Landrum: However, I do love Mama Odie, and I love that, the yes.

00:30:53,570 –> 00:30:54,710
Stefanie Bautista: Yes. The voice.

00:30:54,850 –> 00:30:58,149
Ariel Landrum: The voice, like, on the ride. That that is her.

00:30:58,365 –> 00:31:04,865
And I know that I’ll, what I’ve heard from the the disabled community is that they appreciated the reels and the walkthroughs

00:31:05,165 –> 00:31:11,950
so that they would be able to prepare themselves and not be as scared or, like, have their children, specifically autistic children, like, get used to it.

00:31:11,950 –> 00:31:15,870
So when they go on the ride the first time, they’ll be more willing to. Oh, I see. Yeah.

00:31:15,870 –> 00:31:22,865
So so that’s where I saw the the the goodness, the you don’t get a surprise, and it is if you are a Disney fan, it is hard

00:31:22,865 –> 00:31:26,660
to then all of a sudden try and, like, mute, like, Tiana.

00:31:26,660 –> 00:31:31,540
Tiana’s by like, there are so many things that you would have to mute to not see that Stef. It’s just not gonna happen.

00:31:31,540 –> 00:31:36,225
Again, like we said in the beginning, you get so much news, like, right mhmm.

00:31:36,365 –> 00:31:42,285
Chance Calloway: Right. That’s true. That’s true. I mean, I think the benefit of me, like, not being on Twitter and having a very limited social

00:31:42,285 –> 00:31:46,159
media presence is I’ve only seen 1 of those videos of the blinds face.

00:31:46,159 –> 00:31:51,015
Stefanie Bautista: But see, that’s how much it’s been out there because you think and you only see them. You’re not on anything. Yeah.

00:31:51,015 –> 00:31:55,575
Chance Calloway: Yeah. So I’ve seen I’ve seen the really majestic looking animatronics, but I don’t know what the ride is like.

00:31:55,575 –> 00:31:57,434
But at this point, I would be surprised.

00:31:57,750 –> 00:32:03,750
But I part of me also thinks that there’s, Disney might intentionally want to put more out there so that people understand,

00:32:03,750 –> 00:32:07,475
look, we did, you know, we did this with care and with love.

00:32:07,774 –> 00:32:14,560
That way you don’t have to worry about getting on the ride and being, like, this is offensive, and I’m locked in. And I can’t get out.

00:32:14,640 –> 00:32:15,940
Stefanie Bautista: Which was the case before.

00:32:16,000 –> 00:32:19,620
Ariel Landrum: What are your feelings about the fact that Tiana, the choice I replaced?

00:32:20,720 –> 00:32:23,255
Chance Calloway: No. I mean, I’m glad that Tiana’s getting a ride.

00:32:23,415 –> 00:32:25,415
You know, I I didn’t love that film.

00:32:25,415 –> 00:32:28,375
So at first, it’s kinda like, how does that kind of incorporate that? I remember, oh, yeah.

00:32:28,375 –> 00:32:30,810
They’re like on the rafts and all that kind of stuff. I guess that works.

00:32:31,050 –> 00:32:35,790
I had like, many people, I had my own thoughts of, like, what could take the place in Flash Mountain.

00:32:35,850 –> 00:32:36,350
Ariel Landrum: Like?

00:32:36,890 –> 00:32:37,790
Chance Calloway: I don’t remember.

00:32:39,215 –> 00:32:42,274
Stefanie Bautista: This is an old thought. Yeah. It was a very serious thought.

00:32:42,335 –> 00:32:45,934
Chance Calloway: But, yeah, I, I’m not mad about Tiana getting here right. Yeah.

00:32:45,934 –> 00:32:51,720
Stefanie Bautista: But I also thought that being in New Orleans Square, I did not see anything that represents New Orleans aside from the architecture.

00:32:51,780 –> 00:32:55,000
Tiana has such historical, like, the life roots.

00:32:55,220 –> 00:33:00,355
It was I feel like, a match made in Disney heaven to put her there.

00:33:01,455 –> 00:33:05,700
And, you know, the the food has such a big part of it because that’s literally her business.

00:33:05,840 –> 00:33:10,400
Ariel Landrum: Chance you may not know is that Tiana actually walks around and Yeah. Greets every guest.

00:33:10,400 –> 00:33:13,265
Like, she is at the restaurant, and then a band will play.

00:33:13,345 –> 00:33:19,425
And then she seems to be, like, every 15, 30 minutes that she comes out in her restaurant dress that yeah.

00:33:19,425 –> 00:33:21,205
And, like, comes up and hugs people.

00:33:21,320 –> 00:33:26,600
So we talked about how that’s very accessible for those who may not be able to go on the, big boat.

00:33:26,600 –> 00:33:35,015
Stefanie Bautista: Oh, the river valley. I have had the privilege to be on a Disney cruise, and she, on many, ships now has a restaurant inside the cruise.

00:33:35,075 –> 00:33:40,159
When you are on a Disney cruise, you get to go to the 3 different restaurants every single day if you do, like, a 3 day cruise.

00:33:40,700 –> 00:33:49,595
I had Tiana’s place as my last 1, which was so great because she sings and it’s like a big party, and it’s it’s so beautiful

00:33:49,595 –> 00:33:54,955
because they on Disney Cruise, there’s, like, this thing where they try to get everybody on the boat feel like they’re family

00:33:54,955 –> 00:33:57,490
even though you it’s like you’re staying at a hotel with everybody else.

00:33:57,490 –> 00:33:58,290
Chance Calloway: Yeah. I like that.

00:33:58,290 –> 00:34:04,775
Stefanie Bautista: But they have a sense of community there, and I think it was great that I get I got to have Tiana as the last 1 because she,

00:34:04,775 –> 00:34:08,615
like, went out with a bang and it was beautiful and all the kids loved it.

00:34:08,615 –> 00:34:12,155
That was the first time I saw that representation. It was on a Disney cruise.

00:34:12,180 –> 00:34:14,660
Oh, and not many people get to go on Disney cruises. No.

00:34:15,140 –> 00:34:20,280
It’s not very accessible to people, so I think now having it at the parks makes her a lot more accessible.

00:34:20,695 –> 00:34:23,355
Ariel Landrum: And I I think specifically talking about Tiana.

00:34:23,415 –> 00:34:26,455
Again, Steph and I mentioned this in the evolution of the Disney princess.

00:34:26,455 –> 00:34:28,700
Our critiques, my dad was in the

00:34:35,339 –> 00:34:40,605
reasons for wanting to open up the restaurant was because her dad fed many people, and he had died in the war.

00:34:40,605 –> 00:34:43,985
And we know this because we see a picture of him in uniform, and he got a purple heart.

00:34:44,125 –> 00:34:50,140
Problem is the era that that happened, he would not have been recognized or received a purple heart because he is a black.

00:34:50,140 –> 00:34:54,140
Additionally, Tiana and Naveen wouldn’t have gotten married because it was Jim Crow laws.

00:34:54,140 –> 00:34:59,845
They wouldn’t allow 2 different people of 2 different races to marry each other even if he’s not American.

00:35:00,144 –> 00:35:05,380
So there are a lot of critiques about how that movie forgets the actual experience.

00:35:06,320 –> 00:35:12,160
Chance Calloway: Right. There’s there’s something about it being a literal fairy tale, and then them trying to still set it in the very real

00:35:12,160 –> 00:35:17,174
recent history of America as opposed to making up a country or, you know, an unnamed country.

00:35:17,315 –> 00:35:21,815
So, yeah, there’s so much more, to critique because of that choice.

00:35:22,360 –> 00:35:29,400
That wouldn’t be the case if they say had adopt adapted Farrah’s Beautiful Daughters or something like that instead. But, yeah.

00:35:29,400 –> 00:35:31,724
It’s it’s that idea of kind of like, okay.

00:35:31,724 –> 00:35:34,765
So this is set in America and, you know, okay. Her best friend is white.

00:35:34,765 –> 00:35:37,645
And I guess that’s possible, especially in New Orleans at that time.

00:35:37,645 –> 00:35:43,210
But then he starts to notice those other things, and it kinda takes you out of the magic of the story.

00:35:43,210 –> 00:35:48,855
Ariel Landrum: Well, even when she is serving up her haute beignets to her best friend’s dad, she wouldn’t be, because he wouldn’t be in

00:35:48,855 –> 00:35:53,734
a restaurant that was being served and the food being cooked by black people,

00:35:53,734 –> 00:35:55,170
Stefanie Bautista: or she would’ve been on the same floor.

00:35:55,170 –> 00:35:55,650
Ariel Landrum: She wouldn’t be She’s

00:35:55,650 –> 00:35:57,650
Chance Calloway: pretty straightforward. There there was some kind of distinction.

00:35:57,650 –> 00:35:59,490
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. There’d be some sort of segregation there.

00:35:59,490 –> 00:36:04,950
Chance Calloway: Yeah. And those were kind of things, of course, you don’t wanna necessarily have to deal with in the fairy tale movie that’s aimed for children.

00:36:05,365 –> 00:36:11,925
But those were the kind of developmental decisions that I think, because remember when they first announced it, Tiana’s name was Maddie. Yeah.

00:36:11,925 –> 00:36:15,960
They meant they had the word schemermaid Yeah. In there. And it was like, okay.

00:36:15,960 –> 00:36:18,120
Her name is Maddie, and she’s and she’s a maid.

00:36:18,120 –> 00:36:23,055
And so they, you know, they changed all those kind of things, but, clearly, they put a blood back hook a little.

00:36:23,454 –> 00:36:27,934
Stefanie Bautista: Right. And that just goes to show the repercussions that still need to be made Right.

00:36:28,015 –> 00:36:31,560
And the conversations that still need to be had, especially with children.

00:36:31,620 –> 00:36:37,140
Because if you are reaching back further and further into history as kids are growing up now, it’s so much more important

00:36:37,140 –> 00:36:47,130
to clarify that history in the correct But that doesn’t mean we can’t move forward from it and remember that it happened back

00:36:47,369 –> 00:36:51,710
but that doesn’t mean we can’t move forward from it and remember that it happened back then.

00:36:51,849 –> 00:36:59,414
Chance Calloway: Yes. I did wanna also give a shout out to some of the other, black actresses who embody, like, black princesses in different mediums.

00:36:59,714 –> 00:37:02,934
Pre summer gets overlooked a lot because, you know, Aphra Atlantis.

00:37:03,990 –> 00:37:06,070
Also, Toni Braxton played Belle on Broadway.

00:37:06,070 –> 00:37:08,650
He was the 1st black Broadway princess on Broadway.

00:37:08,710 –> 00:37:14,174
Heather Hely, he was in LA on Broadway, but also Aida who is is the Disney princess on Broadway. Love

00:37:14,174 –> 00:37:14,994
Stefanie Bautista: that production.

00:37:15,214 –> 00:37:18,494
Chance Calloway: Yes. IIII wanted to give a shout out to those ladies as well.

00:37:18,494 –> 00:37:24,300
Stefanie Bautista: I also wanted to mention some of my favorite black characters are the muses from Hercules. Yes.

00:37:24,300 –> 00:37:30,315
They are, like, iconic in my memory because they gave so much life to that movie. Yeah. Yeah.

00:37:30,315 –> 00:37:34,495
I think it was such a great decision to make the soundtrack essentially gospel.

00:37:34,555 –> 00:37:40,830
Me and Chas have talked about this, but, thankfully, on drives, and it was very funny that they decided to take that route

00:37:40,830 –> 00:37:43,550
in a movie that was about Greek mythology Yeah.

00:37:43,630 –> 00:37:49,145
Which kind of would never have that spot sober, but yet here we have Hercules with a, you know, a gospel sounding soundtrack.

00:37:49,145 –> 00:37:51,545
But he’s from a whole different other culture.

00:37:51,545 –> 00:37:59,800
Chance Calloway: Onto the muses, Lillias White specifically was the head muse, and most of the other muses were very iconic Broadway stars like LaShauns, Roz Ryan.

00:37:59,860 –> 00:38:02,105
But, yeah, those voices cannot be duplicated.

00:38:02,245 –> 00:38:09,510
And if they ever do a live action, I don’t know what’s and I hope they’re calling Amber Riley. Who cares for Swain? Hercules? Doesn’t matter.

00:38:09,510 –> 00:38:13,690
Some people might care about Swain McGraw. Everyone’s gonna care about The muse. The muse.

00:38:13,750 –> 00:38:18,225
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Yeah. Give us a ABC special. Yeah. Exacts. Yeah.

00:38:18,365 –> 00:38:20,445
Give us 1 of those live things that you do.

00:38:20,445 –> 00:38:30,400
I just thought about Wish, which is a newer movie. The lead is black. Yes. Ariana Gonzalez. Let me forget her.

00:38:31,660 –> 00:38:35,425
Chance Calloway: 0MG0, no. So Well, you know why? You know why?

00:38:35,425 –> 00:38:39,745
Because the whole reception for the film has been so muted. Right. I even haven’t seen it yet.

00:38:39,745 –> 00:38:41,505
Because I I currently don’t have, like, Disney plus.

00:38:41,505 –> 00:38:45,010
So, like, I I was gonna go see theaters, and then I didn’t. And Yeah. I was on streaming.

00:38:45,010 –> 00:38:46,850
I don’t have that particular streaming service.

00:38:46,850 –> 00:38:48,530
So I might I might, like, rent it tonight and watch it.

00:38:48,530 –> 00:38:48,850
Ariel Landrum: So And

00:38:48,850 –> 00:38:55,485
Stefanie Bautista: to be honest, I mean, I was very reluctant to see it because I didn’t there was no pull for me to watch it aside from, you

00:38:55,485 –> 00:38:57,505
know, it was a celebration of Disney 100.

00:38:58,260 –> 00:39:01,700
And I saw it because my niece’s nephews wanted to watch it at the time.

00:39:01,700 –> 00:39:06,235
It’s a very beautiful story, very diverse task. Ariana Duvel does a great job.

00:39:06,235 –> 00:39:08,495
There are some bangers on that soundtrack.

00:39:08,955 –> 00:39:16,730
But I think it does get overshadowed with the whole just advertising and just the whole thing around Disney 100.

00:39:16,789 –> 00:39:22,555
I feel like that overshadowed a lot of the decision making, because there are hidden gems in there, essentially hidden Mickey’s

00:39:22,555 –> 00:39:24,575
that you can find all throughout the movie.

00:39:24,875 –> 00:39:30,415
But I feel like it was kind of, like, a Frankenstein of all the things that Disney has done in the last 100.

00:39:30,714 –> 00:39:35,780
But here’s an opportunity to have, female black lead. Let’s do it.

00:39:35,840 –> 00:39:43,395
It kind of almost seems a little too convenient, but at the same time, as we’re talking about how it’s never the right time, you just do it.

00:39:43,535 –> 00:39:45,615
I I love the way they animated her.

00:39:45,855 –> 00:39:45,935
Chance Calloway: I

00:39:45,935 –> 00:39:47,155
Stefanie Bautista: think she was beautiful.

00:39:47,490 –> 00:39:53,010
Ariel Landrum: So that that sort of gives us 3, but only one’s going to be crown only 1 was crowned at Disney.

00:39:53,010 –> 00:39:54,289
Chance Calloway: Right. I was gonna say it.

00:39:54,289 –> 00:40:00,975
Ariel Landrum: You think Yes. Kita. You added Kita in the lineup. That’s 3. Yep. But, they only crown Yeah.

00:40:01,095 –> 00:40:05,494
Success as we know, like, covertly when their film makes a certain amount of money.

00:40:05,494 –> 00:40:11,670
Chance Calloway: Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Which is unfortunate because I really do feel like they stumbled with the marketing for for Wish.

00:40:11,670 –> 00:40:14,869
And, apparently, like, the actual film was enough to overcome that. Yeah.

00:40:14,869 –> 00:40:16,405
Because I’m I’m sitting here like, yeah.

00:40:16,405 –> 00:40:18,245
I can’t believe that that completely skipped my mind.

00:40:18,245 –> 00:40:25,500
And that also says something because we had a whole conversation about representation, this specific sort, and the most recent 1 didn’t even register.

00:40:25,640 –> 00:40:32,755
Stefanie Bautista: Right. I feel like missed opportunity for Disney to be able to highlight something in a really good way because of capitalism. Yes. Potentially. Yeah.

00:40:32,755 –> 00:40:34,215
You know, for lack of better word.

00:40:34,275 –> 00:40:38,055
Chance Calloway: Also, question. Was there, a black royal in Wish anywhere?

00:40:38,329 –> 00:40:41,450
Stefanie Bautista: I don’t know. The 2 royals, they were not. Okay.

00:40:41,450 –> 00:40:44,490
They were darker tone skin, but they were not.

00:40:44,490 –> 00:40:45,290
Chance Calloway: Okay. Yeah.

00:40:45,290 –> 00:40:46,170
Stefanie Bautista: I know that. For sure.

00:40:46,170 –> 00:40:49,095
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. This is just something to note to the audience.

00:40:49,095 –> 00:40:55,434
When you are a person of color, you can pretty much delineate when someone is dark brown versus a black.

00:40:55,790 –> 00:40:56,910
Chance Calloway: Right. Like, not the

00:40:57,070 –> 00:41:04,510
Ariel Landrum: If you are somebody who is not a person of color or has never lived, in or more white passing, you might not be able to tell

00:41:04,510 –> 00:41:07,095
that diff but we can certainly see it pretty quickly.

00:41:07,095 –> 00:41:12,375
Like, even though Kida has, like, skin, she’s she’s black. Right. She just lived underground. Right.

00:41:12,375 –> 00:41:17,720
Chance Calloway: Unfortunately, like, in the film that while a a cult classic, it didn’t do you know, it didn’t bang up the box office.

00:41:17,720 –> 00:41:21,135
So a lot of people don’t even talk about it when they talk about the Disney canon.

00:41:21,215 –> 00:41:24,655
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Because, my favorite character on there was was Doc.

00:41:24,655 –> 00:41:27,955
He’s ready to chop everybody’s legs off. He saw through both.

00:41:28,015 –> 00:41:34,960
Now something else we wanted to talk about before we get to our close was, the last episode you were on was a villains episode,

00:41:34,960 –> 00:41:38,705
and you specifically talked about, characters that were queer coded.

00:41:38,785 –> 00:41:42,305
Are there any characters that you think are black coded, and what exactly does that?

00:41:42,305 –> 00:41:48,300
Chance Calloway: Yes. Well, I mean, a black coded character basically would be a character that isn’t identifiably black within the context

00:41:48,300 –> 00:41:53,020
of the story that’s being told, but you know he’s black or you know she’s black.

00:41:53,020 –> 00:41:54,880
You know, it’s kind of 1 of those things.

00:41:55,335 –> 00:42:08,210
And I think probably outside, of course, the universe of The Lion King, our lion is 1 of the most Oh. Quoted characters. Probably the Filipinos 1 and 2. But Yeah. He was voiced by Tabitha Gamble. So it is.

00:42:08,210 –> 00:42:11,010
You know, a black person is like, okay. Powh Lyne’s 1 of us.

00:42:11,010 –> 00:42:13,315
I know some people think that all the goofs are black coded.

00:42:13,315 –> 00:42:16,475
Stefanie Bautista: I was just gonna say, I feel like it’s a general consumption Yeah.

00:42:16,595 –> 00:42:19,315
That, you know, all of the goofs are Yeah. People of color.

00:42:19,315 –> 00:42:25,030
Chance Calloway: Yeah. I mean, Pete also was originally called Black Pete, so there’s something there to look into there. Really?

00:42:25,170 –> 00:42:27,190
Stefanie Bautista: That sounds like a rapper’s day in TV.

00:42:27,250 –> 00:42:29,010
Chance Calloway: Yeah. Black Black Pete. Yeah. Yeah.

00:42:29,170 –> 00:42:30,595
Ariel Landrum: Number 1. That’s a like like

00:42:30,914 –> 00:42:34,595
Chance Calloway: Black Pete except for that hotness for your ears. Yeah.

00:42:34,595 –> 00:42:37,015
The cowline probably would be my number 1.

00:42:37,474 –> 00:42:38,615
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Even the hair.

00:42:38,674 –> 00:42:44,900
Chance Calloway: Yeah. Because even even though, you know, Simba is an Emperor Prince and Jason Weaver sang for his voice, it was still Jonathan

00:42:44,900 –> 00:42:49,065
Taylor Thomas whose voice is in everyone’s ear. Yeah. So, yeah.

00:42:49,065 –> 00:42:53,325
I I put Caroline as my number 1 Yeah. Black Kobe character. Yeah.

00:42:53,630 –> 00:42:55,309
Do you guys think of of anyone who would

00:42:55,630 –> 00:42:58,690
Stefanie Bautista: I mean, I was gonna think Max. The same Yeah. The Goofy movie.

00:42:58,829 –> 00:43:00,029
Chance Calloway: Max is definitely black pudding.

00:43:00,190 –> 00:43:03,105
Ariel Landrum: Powerline and yes. Well, but not goofy for some reason.

00:43:03,105 –> 00:43:12,530
Chance Calloway: Yeah. Not well, I think it’s goofy existed before that era, before we had a family, and he was definitely a suburban white white person back in the day. Yeah. And the original, like, goofy cartoons.

00:43:13,070 –> 00:43:16,290
Ariel Landrum: So I thought of my the black coded character, Mushu.

00:43:17,005 –> 00:43:17,505
Chance Calloway: Mushu.

00:43:18,365 –> 00:43:23,165
Ariel Landrum: That like that? Yep. Not only because the voice actor, but the way that Mushu is written.

00:43:23,165 –> 00:43:23,485
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:43:23,485 –> 00:43:26,040
Ariel Landrum: The way that he talks to the elders. Oh, for sure.

00:43:26,040 –> 00:43:30,040
Stefanie Bautista: I mean, Eddie Murphy, I a very unique voice. Yeah.

00:43:30,120 –> 00:43:36,815
I think Mushu is so interesting because as, you know, somebody who identifies with the Asian culture, with Mulan I mean, I’m

00:43:36,815 –> 00:43:40,195
not East Asian, but Mulan was our first Asian Disney princess.

00:43:40,790 –> 00:43:46,970
The war and everything that she was going through was so solemn that they I feel like they threw in for comedic relief.

00:43:47,030 –> 00:43:47,430
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:43:47,430 –> 00:43:51,285
Stefanie Bautista: And, you know, what does that say about that particular decision?

00:43:51,665 –> 00:44:00,549
Chance Calloway: Yeah. I feel like I feel like, I mean, it’s mostly gonna be animals at this point because half the cast of Oliver and company, I think, are black coded. Right. Yeah. Yep.

00:44:00,609 –> 00:44:03,809
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. With the exception of the 1 that was voiced by was it?

00:44:03,809 –> 00:44:09,055
Stefanie Bautista: It’s not. Teacher. Yeah. Cheryl Lee Ralph was in Oliver and company. She was Rita.

00:44:09,115 –> 00:44:13,695
Ariel Landrum: Yes. Rita. That’s when I was like the 1 was like the love interest. Rita. Yeah.

00:44:13,755 –> 00:44:19,190
Chance Calloway: Yeah. I know this. Oh my gosh. Is Rita’s song Streets of Gold? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:19,190 –> 00:44:22,470
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. So Cheech was Banzai in The Lion King. Banzai?

00:44:22,710 –> 00:44:23,430
Chance Calloway: Like the big movie.

00:44:23,430 –> 00:44:24,330
Stefanie Bautista: 1 of the hyenas.

00:44:24,465 –> 00:44:24,785
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:44:24,785 –> 00:44:27,525
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. So then Banzai? Yeah. I thought it was just Eddie.

00:44:27,665 –> 00:44:28,945
Chance Calloway: No. Ed Ed was the dumb 1.

00:44:28,945 –> 00:44:30,545
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Ed was the dumb 1. And then

00:44:30,545 –> 00:44:31,925
Ariel Landrum: and then Whoopi Goldberg?

00:44:31,985 –> 00:44:32,865
Chance Calloway: Yeah. It was Shenzi.

00:44:32,865 –> 00:44:34,690
Stefanie Bautista: Shenzi, and then Banzai was the other.

00:44:34,850 –> 00:44:38,930
And he was also Ramon in Cars, which I know him from because I watch Cars all the time. Oh, yeah.

00:44:38,930 –> 00:44:39,970
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Yeah. He is Ramon. Yeah.

00:44:39,970 –> 00:44:42,255
Stefanie Bautista: And it’s Jennifer Lewis. With 1 is.

00:44:42,654 –> 00:44:43,134
Chance Calloway: Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:43,134 –> 00:44:43,954
Stefanie Bautista: So yeah.

00:44:44,015 –> 00:44:45,615
Ariel Landrum: There you go. Black coated car.

00:44:45,615 –> 00:44:45,855
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:44:45,855 –> 00:44:48,095
Stefanie Bautista: That’s coated car. That’s right. That’s right.

00:44:48,095 –> 00:44:50,434
Chance Calloway: That’s absolutely right. Well, we can definitely bicoated.

00:44:50,734 –> 00:44:54,530
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Yeah. It’s just Running a business again on the

00:44:54,530 –> 00:44:55,570
Chance Calloway: black. Yeah.

00:44:55,570 –> 00:44:57,730
Ariel Landrum: Black coated women running a business.

00:44:57,730 –> 00:45:03,825
Stefanie Bautista: I feel like for cars, which is cars are inanimate objects. They’re not animals. Right.

00:45:03,964 –> 00:45:07,105
But car culture exists in different ways in different culture.

00:45:07,405 –> 00:45:12,430
So by choosing Cheech as Ramon, that’s Latino car culture. Yeah. By choosing hydraulic.

00:45:12,730 –> 00:45:15,130
Hydraulics, and he had the pinstripes on his car. Yeah.

00:45:15,130 –> 00:45:19,055
And then by choosing Jennifer Lewis as Flo, she was a beautiful Cadillac

00:45:19,135 –> 00:45:19,255
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:45:19,375 –> 00:45:21,935
Stefanie Bautista: Which is also part of black culture too.

00:45:21,935 –> 00:45:22,415
Chance Calloway: Oh, absolutely.

00:45:22,415 –> 00:45:26,150
Stefanie Bautista: So little of appropriation, but also a little bit of representation Yeah.

00:45:26,230 –> 00:45:27,589
Which can exist in the same place.

00:45:27,589 –> 00:45:31,930
Chance Calloway: It’s funny because, you know, I’m thinking, Song of the South is full of, like, the characters.

00:45:32,230 –> 00:45:34,575
Ariel Landrum: But for the wrong reason. 000. No. No. No.

00:45:34,575 –> 00:45:36,535
Chance Calloway: Like the crows in Dublin? It’s the crows. Yeah.

00:45:36,535 –> 00:45:37,215
Ariel Landrum: I doubt it.

00:45:37,215 –> 00:45:42,410
Chance Calloway: Yeah. No. Which my dad says him and his friends thought it was funny. They weren’t offended by that all.

00:45:42,410 –> 00:45:44,350
They thought they thought the girls were funny.

00:45:44,410 –> 00:45:46,110
So it’s 1 of those weird things.

00:45:46,330 –> 00:45:50,750
Stefanie Bautista: I have heard on black Twitter and other things that Robin Hood is black.

00:45:51,005 –> 00:45:51,724
Chance Calloway: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

00:45:51,724 –> 00:45:54,305
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:45:55,085 –> 00:45:58,760
Chance Calloway: Blue. Blue. Oh, yeah. Blue. Yeah. Blue is black. And pink bluey.

00:45:58,900 –> 00:45:59,460
Ariel Landrum: Okay. Okay.

00:45:59,460 –> 00:45:59,620
Stefanie Bautista: It’s a

00:45:59,620 –> 00:46:00,820
Chance Calloway: little of it’s but it’s true.

00:46:00,820 –> 00:46:01,380
Stefanie Bautista: But it’s true.

00:46:01,380 –> 00:46:07,744
Ariel Landrum: Okay. See, as you start to think about it, you’ll start to realize so many things are black coated, but never just hot.

00:46:07,744 –> 00:46:08,225
Chance Calloway: Right.

00:46:08,225 –> 00:46:13,525
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. It’s so funny. The jumbo book is so funny to me because it is set in in in India.

00:46:13,665 –> 00:46:15,329
Ariel Landrum: There’s no Bollywood beef. No.

00:46:15,329 –> 00:46:21,490
Stefanie Bautista: Not at all. The only Indian person you see is Mowgli, essentially, and everyone else around him is, like, I feel another

00:46:21,809 –> 00:46:22,009
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:46:22,210 –> 00:46:23,265
Stefanie Bautista: Another type of person.

00:46:23,345 –> 00:46:29,345
Ariel Landrum: Well, and if talking about representation of people of color, Mowgli didn’t get to be Indian because he didn’t know he was Indian.

00:46:29,345 –> 00:46:31,720
He was raised by and, yeah, he got to be animal.

00:46:31,800 –> 00:46:34,700
So he got to be the the pet human throughout the Yeah.

00:46:34,760 –> 00:46:36,060
Chance Calloway: Culturally. Culturally.

00:46:36,280 –> 00:46:40,085
Stefanie Bautista: No. Yeah. Only in the beginning and at the end when he sees a little girl.

00:46:40,244 –> 00:46:42,325
Chance Calloway: Yeah. He sings 1 of the best songs in the movie.

00:46:42,325 –> 00:46:45,625
Ariel Landrum: Yes. Yeah. For, like, few seconds. Yeah. So gorgeous.

00:46:45,845 –> 00:46:49,410
Chance Calloway: Yeah. That’s my most first place song in that soundtrack. Yeah. It’s a banger.

00:46:49,490 –> 00:46:52,609
Stefanie Bautista: It’s it is a banger. Absolutely. But Yeah. Because I think

00:46:52,690 –> 00:46:56,609
Chance Calloway: did they want, they wanted Louis Armstrong to voice King Louie, I wanna say. Yeah.

00:46:56,609 –> 00:46:59,855
Then, Lou Louis Prima did it instead because Louis Armstrong.

00:47:00,234 –> 00:47:05,454
I think I think Louis Armstrong was like, I don’t I’m not gonna play monkey. Really? Yeah. That’s what it the conversation was.

00:47:05,515 –> 00:47:12,810
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Yeah. I would say the genie was black coated, and then the genie was Will Smith.

00:47:13,109 –> 00:47:16,069
And Will Smith was black in the movie, except for when he was a genie.

00:47:16,069 –> 00:47:17,130
Chance Calloway: And he was blue.

00:47:17,335 –> 00:47:23,355
Ariel Landrum: So is that that’s you know, though it’s not an animal, it’s still again, does it get to be their person Right. The whole movie?

00:47:23,495 –> 00:47:25,195
Stefanie Bautista: We’re thinking Robin Williams.

00:47:25,710 –> 00:47:29,410
Ariel Landrum: Well yeah. No. So the gene I think the genie Robin Williams was black coded.

00:47:29,549 –> 00:47:32,930
Chance Calloway: That’s interesting. I feel like the gene was Robin Williams coded.

00:47:33,069 –> 00:47:34,109
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Well, yes.

00:47:34,109 –> 00:47:41,695
Chance Calloway: You know? Yeah. Yeah. Fair. I I do see that that that I never internalized it that way, but I do think there’s a lot of problematic things.

00:47:41,695 –> 00:47:49,269
I’m I hated that Will Smith was passing the role simply because slave master dynamics Gross. Really felt gross to me. And I, you know,

00:47:49,269 –> 00:47:50,395
Ariel Landrum: definitely Yes.

00:47:50,635 –> 00:47:58,395
Chance Calloway: Really hated that. So maybe even if the animated version was black coded, I I would have rejected that with every ounce of my page.

00:47:58,395 –> 00:48:00,849
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. But no. They did a Prestige production

00:48:01,069 –> 00:48:01,190
Chance Calloway: Yes.

00:48:01,309 –> 00:48:03,710
Stefanie Bautista: For a very, very long time at California Adventure.

00:48:03,710 –> 00:48:07,995
And as far as I can remember, every single 1 of those genies was played by Blackhawk?

00:48:08,075 –> 00:48:08,395
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:48:08,395 –> 00:48:11,595
Ariel Landrum: Yes. And same with on Broadway yeah. On Broadway too.

00:48:11,595 –> 00:48:14,735
Chance Calloway: Yeah. Eagle Heart got the, the Tony for it. Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:14,795 –> 00:48:16,930
I still think it makes it’s icky to me.

00:48:16,930 –> 00:48:20,530
I would say that magic carpet was black coated, but I think I I don’t think it’s, like, a thing.

00:48:20,530 –> 00:48:21,490
I I think I might just say it.

00:48:21,490 –> 00:48:22,630
Stefanie Bautista: Is it because he’s sassy?

00:48:22,690 –> 00:48:23,089
Chance Calloway: Yes.

00:48:23,089 –> 00:48:28,335
Ariel Landrum: Yeah. Even in Guardians of the Galaxy. Yeah. Gamora. Gamora. Black black coated.

00:48:28,555 –> 00:48:33,535
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Black coated. Yes. Because I see your face. Yeah. We cannot deny that.

00:48:33,835 –> 00:48:38,860
Ariel Landrum: But again, you have to stop there and think about it because they’re they’re not main characters or promoted.

00:48:38,860 –> 00:48:40,940
Like, I didn’t even know Moon Girl came out.

00:48:40,940 –> 00:48:43,840
Like, that that would be would just showed up on by Disney plus.

00:48:44,095 –> 00:48:51,530
Although, I have, like, known about like, I knew when WandaVision was coming out, that was so heavily promoted and low key.

00:48:51,770 –> 00:48:58,730
Chance Calloway: Yeah. Even though I didn’t see Frozen, the Frozen songs were at escape. Yeah. Wish heard nothing. Yeah.

00:48:58,730 –> 00:49:04,154
And and part of me also wonders if it hap because the strike was happening at the same time. Yeah.

00:49:04,154 –> 00:49:07,194
So, you know, Ariana couldn’t go out and promote it and all those kind of things.

00:49:07,194 –> 00:49:11,210
So I felt there was a lot of different reasons why the reception was muted.

00:49:11,210 –> 00:49:17,195
But, yeah, there’s a distinct difference, I think, in how Wish was received versus their other animated films recently.

00:49:17,355 –> 00:49:24,155
Stefanie Bautista: And also the recent years, we did have to deal with the pandemic and the thought of a lot of these productions or the release,

00:49:24,155 –> 00:49:28,559
like, for Soul and for Turning Red, they were straight to streaming.

00:49:28,619 –> 00:49:33,900
They were not in the theaters because no 1 could go to the and then after that, when everything started coming back, we had

00:49:33,900 –> 00:49:37,135
a huge exponential, like, jump to all of this content.

00:49:37,515 –> 00:49:40,235
And now it’s hard to kind of, like, keep track of it all.

00:49:40,235 –> 00:49:46,850
So so many different factors that kind of dictate the way that we consume things and the way that we hear about things

00:49:46,930 –> 00:49:47,049
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:49:47,170 –> 00:49:50,955
Stefanie Bautista: And the level of what’s popular, what’s not, what the kids are talking about, not.

00:49:50,955 –> 00:49:54,155
And then also, how connecting you out with social media more not.

00:49:54,155 –> 00:49:57,775
Ariel Landrum: Going back to full circle about, like, how news used to take so long.

00:49:58,010 –> 00:50:04,810
It also means that if news doesn’t circulate, it doesn’t circulate now, which means that it’s part of your ethical duty.

00:50:04,810 –> 00:50:11,244
If you do want to promote voices and, encourage representation, you go back and look at the things that you

00:50:11,244 –> 00:50:16,170
Stefanie Bautista: might have missed. Yeah. Because, unfortunately, we’re not all gonna sit down and watch Cinderella on the wonderful world

00:50:16,170 –> 00:50:19,369
of Disney anymore on a Sunday evening. Right. Those times are gone.

00:50:19,369 –> 00:50:21,609
Chance Calloway: Yeah. The way we consume media is very different now. Mhmm.

00:50:21,609 –> 00:50:25,235
And, you know, like, if you’re you’re lucky, you watch something, and then it’s great.

00:50:25,235 –> 00:50:29,095
And then you tell your friends, and then they also watch it. But Yeah. That’s not always the case.

00:50:29,235 –> 00:50:34,550
Stefanie Bautista: But I think it’s very interesting, the ride we have taken Yes. And and this realization.

00:50:34,770 –> 00:50:38,115
Because listeners and we are thinking of these things in real time.

00:50:38,195 –> 00:50:38,755
Chance Calloway: Yes. Right.

00:50:38,755 –> 00:50:41,955
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. So it’s coming to our memories as we’re remembering all of this.

00:50:41,955 –> 00:50:46,375
And I think that goes to show that they have always existed, but never highlight.

00:50:46,609 –> 00:50:53,170
And I feel like that’s really what the root of what we’re talking about is when honoring a holiday like Juneteenth, is that

00:50:53,170 –> 00:50:57,055
we need to basically have these voices rise up more Yeah.

00:50:57,135 –> 00:51:02,835
And highlight them more because they’re important voices, they are impactful, and they have shaped the way that we consume

00:51:02,895 –> 00:51:05,369
Disney medium and a lot of other things.

00:51:05,369 –> 00:51:11,549
And that just goes to show the talent and the sheer, attention that we need to give to these boys. Yeah.

00:51:11,845 –> 00:51:16,725
Chance Calloway: Disney needs to release the soundtrack to the Brandy of Whitney Houston Cinderella.

00:51:16,725 –> 00:51:17,365
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Absolutely.

00:51:17,365 –> 00:51:20,025
Chance Calloway: Originally, it wasn’t released because, Brandy’s

00:51:21,250 –> 00:51:22,050
Stefanie Bautista: pictures Yes.

00:51:22,050 –> 00:51:32,175
Chance Calloway: They didn’t wanna ruin, you know, her audience because of Moesha and her upcoming never say never. That’s now decades in the past. Yeah. Let’s get that on streaming. Let’s do that.

00:51:32,175 –> 00:51:33,055
Ariel Landrum: She she’s back.

00:51:33,055 –> 00:51:34,974
Chance Calloway: And she’s back. It’s not a perfect time.

00:51:34,974 –> 00:51:37,454
And and the and the movie now is on Disney plus. Absolutely.

00:51:37,454 –> 00:51:41,720
You could even get it for a very long time. So I say, yeah, release that.

00:51:41,860 –> 00:51:51,025
And then next time you give us a Disney princess that that is that is black, let’s have a black creative team. There’s some amazing black songwriters. You know?

00:51:51,025 –> 00:51:56,005
Let’s let’s give them the reigns for our next, you know, Disney Animation even besides princess. You know?

00:51:56,070 –> 00:52:01,370
If you’re giving me, like, some black characters or protagonists, let’s get some black people behind it.

00:52:01,830 –> 00:52:04,915
Even even old school, you know, guys like Stevie Wonder.

00:52:04,995 –> 00:52:08,455
Can you imagine a Stevie Wonder Disney soundtrack? Yeah. That would be amazing.

00:52:08,595 –> 00:52:11,315
Ariel Landrum: 90 fries. He’s saying, the Mulan 1. Right?

00:52:11,315 –> 00:52:13,075
Stefanie Bautista: He did Trudy Howard with 90 degrees.

00:52:13,075 –> 00:52:14,900
Ariel Landrum: Yes. The tree heart was Yeah.

00:52:15,460 –> 00:52:15,619
Chance Calloway: Yeah.

00:52:15,619 –> 00:52:17,140
Stefanie Bautista: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Fun. Yep.

00:52:17,140 –> 00:52:19,740
Chance Calloway: They just they were on the same label at the time. 90 degrees Same.

00:52:19,880 –> 00:52:24,075
Because I only I learned that when we watched that, This is Pop. Yes.

00:52:24,315 –> 00:52:28,555
Stefanie Bautista: The just the collaborations are endless. Yeah. We have so much talent. Yeah.

00:52:28,555 –> 00:52:35,140
And we can’t wait to see, because, I mean, as we see the steady rise of representation, I feel like it can only go up.

00:52:35,140 –> 00:52:38,040
So all high hopes, all positive vibes.

00:52:38,740 –> 00:52:40,520
But this was such a great conversation.

00:52:40,819 –> 00:52:44,875
Thank you, Chance, for, you know, diving deep into our memories as always.

00:52:45,415 –> 00:52:51,990
And where can we find you and your work so our listeners can find you wherever you’re doing, what you’re doing now.

00:52:51,990 –> 00:52:53,990
And if you wanna shout that out, this is your time.

00:52:53,990 –> 00:52:59,345
Chance Calloway: Yes. Probably the easiest way to access me is through my website, chancecalloway.com. Yes.

00:52:59,345 –> 00:52:59,421
And if you are celebrating Juneteenth, DM

00:52:59,421 –> 00:53:04,845
Ariel Landrum: us and let us know what you’re going to do, where you’re going to be, you’re going to celebrate. You will find us on

00:53:07,460 –> 00:53:09,880
both IG and X @happiestpodgt.

00:53:11,619 –> 00:53:14,200
Stefanie Bautista: Alright. Thank you, everyone. We’ll see you next time.

Media/Characters Mentioned
  • Brandy Cinderella movie
  • Black Panther
  • Princess Tiana
  • The Princess and the Frog
  • The Lion King
  • Simba
  • Kida
  • Wish
  • Asha
  • Ariana DeBose
  • Jennifer Lewis
  • Flo
  • Oliver And Company
  • Rita
  • Beauty and the Beast
  • Ralph Breaks the Internet
  • The Goofy Movie
  • Powerline
  • Mulan
  • Mushu
  • Hercules
  • The Muses
  • Coming to America
  • Aida
  • Hercules (Broadway)
  • Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur
  • Miles Morales
  • Nick Fury
  • Photon
  • Raya and the Last Dragon
  • Frozen
  • Moana
  • Cars
  • Ramon
  • Flo
  • Song of the South
Topics/Themes Mentioned
  • Juneteenth
  • Media representation
  • Disney’s portrayal of Black characters
  • Diverse representation in media
  • Federal recognition
  • Black coded characters
  • Promoting diverse voices
  • Projection representation
  • The Transformation Trope
  • Jim Crow Laws

Website: happy.geektherapy.com
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| Website: https://www.chancecalloway.com/ |

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